Brian Joubert Discussion Group



 
PortalHomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsLog inFacebookTwitter

Share | 
 

 Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next
AuthorMessage
Blue Bead
vip


Number of posts : 2023
Age : 70
Localisation : Ohio, USA
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 18:43

There are so many things I want to say, right now, but it would take a novel-length post to accomplish it. Elvis' article pretty much summed up everything I've been thinking for quite awhile. I'm irate that this mockery of an Olympic men's competition has produced the results it has. What garbage! Lysacek a gold medalist????!!!! What crap!

Cincata and his cronies, aided by the ISU and it's good-old-boy network have succeeded in ruining the sport of figure skating. I suspect that the primary reason the ISU changed how the events are scored was to prevent the IOC from having any ideas of removing figure skating, as we knew and loved it, from the Olympics. Too many movers-and-shakers at the IOC level complained that figure skating wasn't about sport, at all, but was merely esthetically pleasing. Too many other outsiders in the sports world complained that there was no "sport" to it; it was too pretty and artistic and beautiful to be defined as a sport, so the ISU did the IOC's bidding and formulated the mockery known as CoP which assigns all kinds of point to every imaginable movement on the ice; all this under the guise of "fixing" the judging mess. As it is, the only thing, yet, which hasn't had points attached to it is coughing and sneezing. Of course the elements that have mattered to skaters for the couple of decades, namely the quad jumps, have been deemed too dangerous and have be discouraged by giving them minimal points.

If the whole idea has been to make figure skating more like a sport by the IOC and the ISU, why is it that the very jumps which have elicited such attention from the fan base get very little in the way of points attached to them? Where's the sport in that? The Olympics have always been about pushing the athletic envelope. What better way to do that than launching a human body into the air, revolving 4 times, and landing with one foot on one skinny steel blade, and having the physical control and stanima to glide back across the ice to do a jump combination or several physically involved elements? This concept of cramming as many contortionistic positions as one can into a time frame while covering all the ice is ludicrous. I will say that it does require a certain percentage of stanima and muscular control, so mabe that's the ISU's idea of pushing the envelope. It may be their's but it sure isn't mine.

So much was so very wrong with the outcome of the SP and FP, I don't know where to begin, lol. I would not have thought before that there might be some behind-the-scenes dealings by the USFSA to get an American gold medal, but now I'm not so sure. Suspect I thought that Canada and France were more likely candidates. One thing of which I am very sure....what we all knew as figure skating has changed for the worse. That beautiful, athletic sport we all loved has morphed into some ugly monster. I hate, hate, hate the thought that Brian might really consider adapting his programs in the future to mesh with this nightmare called CoP with the result of joining the ranks of the other cookie-cutter monstrocity programs. If he chooses to compete again under this new judging system his victories will not be as sweet knowing he doesn't have to push the envelpope to get regular gold medals or the newly tarnished Olympic gold one. Does someone have a time machine that can send me back to where I can revel in Alexei Yagudin winning his genuine Olympic gold over and over again or where Brian Joubert skated like the champion he is and won?

Mary C.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Nona
SOS d'un terrien en detresse
avatar

Number of posts : 4751
Age : 30
Localisation : Wijk bij Duurstede, Pays bas
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 18:49

Quote :
I just watched again his LP (thanks for the link btw). And you may call me nuts, but I LIKED IT! Of course not the fall and messed up jumps, but the artistry, the movements, the step sequences, especially the last one - my, I got goosebumps from that one cloud9 It was superb, because at that moment I saw a glimpse of the old Brian, the Brian that he wants to be again and the one that we want to see. He's there, he's not lost, and he WILL come back!

you´re welcome! It´s a beautiful program and I thought that Brian was really fighting for it! I hope he will keep this program the next season! Cause everything looks superb!

welcome katkeeper! Good first post Very Happy

Good article again from Elvis! he knows to say the right things!

B.t.w. i think it was really brave what Oda did on the ice last night! a broken lace who he tight again in one minute and went on with his program like nothing happend!

Brian joubert SP: German Eurosport!
mediafire.com ?zvmtzzzyjql

_________________
¨°ºManonº°¨
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lonnie
Love's divine


Number of posts : 238
Age : 51
Registration date : 2009-10-18

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 19:50

Mary, I share your thoughts. maybe you could base a novel on the happennings of last night?

Blue Bead wrote:
There are so many things I want to say, right now, but it would take a novel-length post to accomplish it. Elvis' article pretty much summed up everything I've been thinking for quite awhile. I'm irate that this mockery of an Olympic men's competition has produced the results it has. What garbage! Lysacek a gold medalist????!!!! What crap!

I think it is important to note that (most of us) have nothing against Evan Lysacek. He is a great competitor who has wonderful control over his nerves. He didn't do naything wrong last night, simply played by the rules given to him. It is the rules that suck, and allow such an outrageous outcome.

Quote :
Too many movers-and-shakers at the IOC level complained that figure skating wasn't about sport, at all, but was merely esthetically pleasing. Too many other outsiders in the sports world complained that there was no "sport" to it; it was too pretty and artistic and beautiful to be defined as a sport, so the ISU did the IOC's bidding and formulated the mockery known as CoP which assigns all kinds of point to every imaginable movement on the ice; all this under the guise of "fixing" the judging mess.

Yeah, and they managed the exact opposite of what they have SUPPOSEDLY set out to do. Or did they?

Quote :
As it is, the only thing, yet, which hasn't had points attached to it is coughing and sneezing.

Well, if you can cough while holding your skate to your head, that's a "feature" ;-) (this reminds me of what my computer programmers always say, toungue-in-cheek: "it is not a bug in the system - it is a feature").

Quote :
I hate, hate, hate the thought that Brian might really consider adapting his programs in the future to mesh with this nightmare called CoP with the result of joining the ranks of the other cookie-cutter monstrocity programs. If he chooses to compete again under this new judging system his victories will not be as sweet knowing he doesn't have to push the envelpope to get regular gold medals or the newly tarnished Olympic gold one.

That's what worries me the most, and why I said this morning that perhaps Brian shouldn't go on. If he doesn't go the CoP way, he has little chance of winning anything big (anyone want to bet that Chan will win worlds now?), and if he does - it will be like selling himself, and he will lose his soul. It is not as if he hadn't worked on his non-jump elements - he had, to the degree that they messed up with his beautiful jumps. Should he start piling on points with combos like 3S-2T-2T? That's like going back to second grade when you are 17.

This is also why I am skeptical aboout all this "training abroad" DG has been pushing. Suppose he went to train with Orser (I don't see it happening) - he'd be doing this stupid step sequences and stuff like 2A-2T-2T that Yu-Na does. Yu-Na is a wonderful skater, but apart from ker kicka$$ 3F-3T combo, she is hardly pushing the envelope, earning world records with 5-triple programs.

Quote :
Does someone have a time machine that can send me back to where I can revel in Alexei Yagudin winning his genuine Olympic gold over and over again or where Brian Joubert skated like the champion he is and won?

Sure, it's called youtube...

Lonnie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Maarjake
Love's divine
avatar

Number of posts : 254
Age : 28
Localisation : Estonia
Registration date : 2006-06-19

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 21:11

I just looked Calgary MM 2006, when Brian did his Matrix. Just so good to watch him...I want that Brian back!!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Catkeeper
Untouchable


Number of posts : 58
Age : 52
Localisation : California, USA
Registration date : 2010-02-18

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 21:22

It's too bad we have to watch old YouTube videos to see any decent skating.

Where's Yagudin? He had both artistry and the quad.


Elvis and Sasha have more to say about the men's program. See Yahoo sports video.
Here's the link:
sports.yahoo.com/video/player/woly/Figure_Skating/18224994;_ylt=AuAEacp8kfyu7e_.Dc6ZYu.NsbV_#woly/Figure_Skating/18224994


Laura
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Queeni
Love's divine
avatar

Number of posts : 170
Age : 34
Localisation : Cologne, Germany
Registration date : 2009-09-29

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 21:42

I was curious so I just looked some things up - Olympics 2002, Men's FS. I just needed to know if everything was really better back then (concerning the jumps) or if my memory betrays me. I need a time machine ...
The list is not complete since I had to check old threads in different forums to refresh my memory Very Happy

Takeuchi (finished 22nd)
3 axel 4 salchow 4 toe 4 toe/3 toe 3 lutz

Davydov (finished 21st)
3 axel fall 3 axel fall again2 lutz3 lutz step out2 loop 3 loop fall

Lambiel (finished 15th)
3z 3a fell 3z? wonky landing almost sat down 3lp 3f-3t 3z-2t 3s

Brian (finished 14th)
4 toe with extra turn 3 axel 3 flip 3 axel/2 toe step out 2 loop 3 lutz 3 salchow fall

Van der perren (finished 12th)
3a-3t 3z-3t 3lp 3s 3f 3z 2a

Elvis Stojko (finished 8th)
4 toe/2 toe 4toe/2toe/2loop 3 lutz 3 axel step out 2 toe 3 flip 3 loop 3 salchow

Michael Weiss (finished 7th)
4/3/2(whatever *g*) 3 axel 2 loop 3 axel 3 toe 3 flip step out 3 salchow 3 lutz

Todd Eldredge (finished 6th)
fell on the quad toe 3 axel 3 toe 3 lutz 3 loop 3 toe 3 flip 3 axel 3 salchow

Takeshi Honda (finished 4th)
3sth? (sal?) step out of 4t 3z? 3a-2t 3a 3lp 3f

Tim Goebel (finished 3rd)
3 lutz 4 salchow/3 toe 3 axel / 2 toe 4 toe 3 axel overrotated and kind of double footed
4 salchow 3 flip 2 loop

Plush (finished 2nd)
4t-3t-3lp, but stepped out of the loop 3a-oiler-3f (among others *g*)

Alexei (won, obviously)
4/3/2, another quad and a triple axel
3a-half loop-3s
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Blue Bead
vip


Number of posts : 2023
Age : 70
Localisation : Ohio, USA
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 21:50

Putin and Plushenko are yelling bloody murder to the Press....interesting article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/winter-olympics/7271738/Winter-Olympics-2010-Vladimir-Putin-weighs-into-figure-skating-debate.html

I would say that Putin thinks Russia's honor has been damaged in the loss of the gold medal or that's the way it's being spun, at least.

Mary C.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Maarjake
Love's divine
avatar

Number of posts : 254
Age : 28
Localisation : Estonia
Registration date : 2006-06-19

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 21:57

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Queeni
Love's divine
avatar

Number of posts : 170
Age : 34
Localisation : Cologne, Germany
Registration date : 2009-09-29

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 22:07

Maarjake wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHjvG-nEEfo

What more can you add to that ...
One of the rare moments when I fully support Plush.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Blue Bead
vip


Number of posts : 2023
Age : 70
Localisation : Ohio, USA
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 22:32

...and the outrage continues.....specifically, Mishin is pissed, lol
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news?slug=ro-plushenko021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Hmmmm.... why do I suspect Mishin, et al, what a second gold medal awarded a.k.a the 2002 Pairs debacle. Rolling Eyes

Mary C.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Queeni
Love's divine
avatar

Number of posts : 170
Age : 34
Localisation : Cologne, Germany
Registration date : 2009-09-29

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   19.02.10 22:34

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/woly/Figure_Skating/18224994#woly/Figure_Skating/18224546

Sorry if this has been posted before. Thanks for the link, Nina!


Blue Bead wrote:
...and the outrage continues.....specifically, Mishin is pissed, lol
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news?slug=ro-plushenko021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Hmmmm.... why do I suspect Mishin, et al, what a second gold medal awarded a.k.a the 2002 Pairs debacle. Rolling Eyes

Mary C.

Unisex competition clap

Not that I really believe it will but I hope that all this criticism has an effect on the whole system in the end ... hopefully in a positive way!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
AnnaluvsAlexei
avatar

Number of posts : 18
Age : 33
Registration date : 2006-11-23

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 6:40

For those in the US (I don't know if this will work for other countries) NBC olympics actually does have a streaming video of Brian's long program, but it was difficult to find! For some reason they did not link it to his athletes' page, but if you google "nbcolympics brian joubert" it pops up as a video. Here is a direct link: http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=594ee62f-0932-47a5-aac0-f24f0319f724.html?__source=rss&cid=

Who is the blond guy that is sitting next to Brian in the Kiss & Cry? I noticed that he said "See you in Sochi" to the cameras and to Laurent, and Laurent repeated it "yeah, see you in sochi" -- does this mean that Brian might skate in Sochi? I hope he will be able to...I have a feeling that Plushenko might skate in Sochi if no other Russian skater emerges that could win...

After seeing the LP finally, I have to say that I was not impressed with what seemed to be a lack of energy in Brian, though I understand it has been a rough couple of days. Just wish he could have skated better to show that he is capable of skating a great program even if he is not feeling well...don't really like the resigned attitude. oh well.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Anastasia
vip
avatar

Number of posts : 4091
Age : 30
Localisation : Moscow, Russia
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 7:43

LOL actually that blond guy is *cough cough* MAXIM STAVIYSKIY - world champion in dances 2007 in pair with Albena Denkova.I guess there'll be another question,what is he doing there with Brian?lol Ok,so he is actually Brian's choreographer during this Olympic season.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://brianjoubert.ruhelp.com/
cravey
Matrix
avatar

Number of posts : 3023
Age : 28
Localisation : Riga,Latvia
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 9:38

lol! Nastya! Actually Max & Albena were also 2006 World champions Smile But Max has changed a bit in his looks, he's put up more weight. And I think when he skated he didn't have that small beard, plus he often wears glasses now, that way it's understandable if somebody doesn't recognize him, especially if one hasn't followed ice dance competition very closely Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dailslidosanalv.ucoz.com/
durlindana
Official Translator
Official Translator


Number of posts : 84
Age : 48
Localisation : Switzerland
Registration date : 2009-04-09

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 10:18

Blue Bead wrote:
Putin and Plushenko are yelling bloody murder to the Press....interesting article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/winter-olympics/7271738/Winter-Olympics-2010-Vladimir-Putin-weighs-into-figure-skating-debate.html

I would say that Putin thinks Russia's honor has been damaged in the loss of the gold medal or that's the way it's being spun, at least.

Mary C.
Thank you for the link Mary.
I often don't approve of Putin's comments but in this case I wholeheartedly agree with him!
I think the Russia's honor comments revolve around the fact that they think Plush was robbed of the gold, and I can't say I blame them.

Maarjake wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHjvG-nEEfo

Thank you for the video, I couldn't see the medal ceremony but I'd heard about what happened, and I totally agree with what Plush did, reminds me of Surya Bonaly, can't remember the year, when she did something similar.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.arlisa-bijoux.com
durlindana
Official Translator
Official Translator


Number of posts : 84
Age : 48
Localisation : Switzerland
Registration date : 2009-04-09

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 10:30

Catkeeper wrote:
It's too bad we have to watch old YouTube videos to see any decent skating.

Where's Yagudin? He had both artistry and the quad.


Elvis and Sasha have more to say about the men's program. See Yahoo sports video.
Here's the link:
sports.yahoo.com/video/player/woly/Figure_Skating/18224994;_ylt=AuAEacp8kfyu7e_.Dc6ZYu.NsbV_#woly/Figure_Skating/18224994


Laura

Thank you for the link, I agree with what's being said regarding Johnny not having been awarded what he deserved.

As for where's Yagudin....lol, one thing's for sure, I have yet to see a skater that equals him let alone surpasses him....and that was my nostalgia bit for the day.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.arlisa-bijoux.com
Nona
SOS d'un terrien en detresse
avatar

Number of posts : 4751
Age : 30
Localisation : Wijk bij Duurstede, Pays bas
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 10:38

Thank you Queeni for your research on the olympics in 2002 it really proves that they have been jumping quads for a long time now and it didn't mather if you would be first, fifth or 22nd all the men tried a quad jump~!

Thanks for the articles girls! It's the first time I actualy agree on what Plush says!

_________________
¨°ºManonº°¨
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Titanilla
Ces soirées-là
avatar

Number of posts : 3974
Age : 34
Localisation : Rimavská Sobota, Slovakia
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 11:51

Yesterday I was thinking about all this for a long time. And I realized one thing. We didnt fully realize what the COP could do to figure skating in the last two years when Buttle and Evan became world champions without a quad because in both cases their competitors with quads had mistakes. In 2008 Brian fell in the SP and in 2009 in the LP. So we still thought if he would have been clean with quads, he would won. But these Olympics showed even if you are clean with quads (Plush landed both in the SP and LP) you can be beaten with someone with no quads!!!! And this is the problem!!!!

On the other hand, I have to point out, that I have nothing against Evan and I dont agree with Plush when he said Evan is not a true champion. Because - and I have big admiration to this! - Evan managed to do his very best in the very most important moment of his life. And this is something only true champions are capable of.

The problem is with the system, not with Evan.


ETA:

Quote of Takahashi:
Quote :
"It was my ideal to win with a quad. Although I couldn't nail it, I feel happy that I have tried it on this stage," said the 2007 world silver medallist after his performance to Nino Rota's La Strada.
(source: http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-news/n/news/afp-news/figure-skating--takahashi-celebrates-bronze-despite-quad-flop_285034GZ.html)
Thank you Mr. Takahashi for this attitude!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
durlindana
Official Translator
Official Translator


Number of posts : 84
Age : 48
Localisation : Switzerland
Registration date : 2009-04-09

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 13:23

A friend gave me this link to an italian article on Evan defending himself against Plushenko's accusations, I don't have time to translate it all but I translated the main bits.

http://www.icetoice.it/articolo/evan-lysacek-si-difende-da-evgeni-plushenko/3465

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lysacek:
"I am very unhappy that somebody who's been a role model for me for many years now attacks me, during the most beautiful moment of my life. Nobody likes losing, it's difficult to accept."

"The quad is just one of the hundreds of elements that can be executed in a 4 minutes program. I am suprised he (Plushenko) emphasizes so much that element" declared Lysacek, who added that most probably his russian colleague hasn't fully understood the new judging system.

"Maybe Plushenko, Stéphane and Patrick had different information regarding what the judges would have looked for. I don't know what each coach demands of his athletes, for my part I believe in my coach and never had doubts"

"I'm not at all sure I'll go to Worlds, and not even to the Sochi games, to be honest I don't think they'd be happy to see me"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that nobody likes losing....even more so when they're losing undeservedly. Laughing
As for the quad being just one element amongst others....well, like I said before, men's skating's definitely going down the drain this time. lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.arlisa-bijoux.com
oana24
1492
avatar

Number of posts : 973
Age : 29
Localisation : Romania, Timisoara
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 14:09

I don't really know what to think about this whole protest thing... On one hand, the rules are as they are in figure skating right now and Evan skated his best, he didn't win by breaking the rules, by these rules it's Evan who should have won imo. So under these conditions, i don't agree that he's not a real champion. Although i would have put Plushenko first, i don't think he was perfect, he had a few shaky landings and i don't agree with him being too good for these Olympics. And i don't aprove of Putin's involvement in this scandal either, i think this is going too far.

On the other hand, the rules completely suck and Plushenko's point of view on them is also mine, it's the rules that are stupid and unfair, not Evan's victory. So perhaps it's a good thing that Plushenko's protesting, if he's protesting vehemently enough, he might actually achieve something. In other words, i don't think it's fair to denigrate Evan because of his win, but if there's a chance this would lead to a change of the CoP, i totally support Plushenko's protest (in this case, the purpose might excuse the means Twisted Evil )
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sunny214
Mexican Hat Dance
avatar

Number of posts : 36
Age : 40
Registration date : 2008-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 15:14

I don´t really get the whole discussion about one jump.
Ice Skating is so much more then just jumping. It is the pirouettes, it is the step combinations and the whole choreographic.
Maybe I am the only one but I am so glad that Plushenko didn´t win because when you look at it closely between the jumps there wasn´t much he did. For me Takahashi should have won or at least be on the second place. Because his combi of jumps and programm elements between the jumps were the best.
If you only go after the jumps why put the effort in a whole programm? Then the contest should be all men go an the ice put there jumps on the ice and thats it.
I am always impressed with the jumps but I couldn´t watch it for hours.
But I could watch complicated steps combinations and pirouettes for hours.
Brian had some very cool step combinations in his past programms. And that is what I rember the most of these programms and not what jumps he had made.
Back to Plushi - when Yagudin was still able to skate on WC or EC or Olympics and both of them jumped equally it was always the better programm and what made Yagudin defeat Plushi time and time again.

I agree that Plushi maybe the best Ice jumper but in no way he is the best Ice skater!

At first I came here to read what happened to Brian and what were the reasons why he skated so badly but when I read all of this complaining about the jumps I couldn´t stop myself to weight my opinion in.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bladette
James Bond
avatar

Number of posts : 1036
Age : 36
Registration date : 2009-07-15

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 15:39

Which other skaters will participate to this test skate to Worlds with Brian? Amodio and Alban?? I think the test skate will be pretty soon, maybe in the beginning of the March, any guesses?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lonnie
Love's divine


Number of posts : 238
Age : 51
Registration date : 2009-10-18

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 16:29

Sunny, i don't think anyone here thinks it's just about the jumps, and I am pretty sure there are very few Plushy-fans on this board, seeing as he was Brian's major rival for most of him career, but the Plushenko-vs-Evan is just the culmination of what we think is wrong with CoP and where it's taken skating.

It has already impacted ladie's skating, but due to the brilliance of the Kim, Asada and Ando, it was hard to note at first. It had certainly impacted pairs skating, making the most beautiful pairs moves into these ugly contortions, the programs into "check-the-elements".

We did not catch on to its impact on men's skating at first, because in the beginning the judges were still using 6.0 mentality to grade the skaters and were careful with their GoEs, so the ones with the big jumps still won, but is has slowly morphed into what we saw Thursday night. It's not just about the quad, but as Patrick Chan (4th in the free) showed, you hardly need a second triple axle, and all the CoP-masters picked up points with useless combos such as 3S-2T-2T.

It is true that the jumps are not the only part of figure-skating (I hate it when people bring up that it's called "figure skating", not "figure jumping" becasue, really, there are no figures in it, either, right?) but if you look at FS as a SPORT, then you want to see the most athletic, difficult, RISKY elements being rewarded, cause that's what sport is all about. If it was just for the beauty, we could all just go to a dance recital - no doubt that dance is really hard phisical work, but it is not a sport.

Yagudin won against Plushenko, because when the technical content is equal then the whole of the program mattaers, but when Yags couldn't match Plush's tech content, he lost, no matter that he was a better skater with better programs. And that was right. I cannot for the life of me agree that the whole program is more important than the technical elements in it, not when we are in a sports competition. For an EX program they could do without the jumps altogether. Browning's Nyah is one of the most beautiful routines ever and there is not a sinlge jump in there, but it is not a competitive program, is it?

Lonnie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sunny214
Mexican Hat Dance
avatar

Number of posts : 36
Age : 40
Registration date : 2008-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 17:03

I get your point and on some level I agree with you.
Yes I want risky elements and but I think that a good and technical clear 3T should get more points then an shaky almost falldown 4T - only because he tried.
I think that a good clear programm without any mistakes should win against a programm with maybe bigger technics but few mistakes.
It takes the whole package to win a title and not only technical elements.
Just because the "check the elements" mentally I think that it was important for Evan to win because he didn´t include all elements. He didn´t force himself into the 4T and let that element out and choosed to go for the clear programm and let the whole programm speak for itself.
I hate it that Plushi was so sure he would win only because he had the 4T and had the more risky elements. His risky elements wasn´t solide and some of them were pretty shaky.
So I think that the message send from the jugdes were a good one on that matter. That they doesn´t go through a check list and let the one with the most difficult jumps win no matter if they were shaky or fallen and because of that ruin the overall impression. No they went for the whole programm which was without any mistakes. And it wasn´t that Evan hadn´t good technics in them - it was just one element that was missing.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Blue Bead
vip


Number of posts : 2023
Age : 70
Localisation : Ohio, USA
Registration date : 2006-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   20.02.10 17:57

In regard to Plush's vehement objections over the outcome, and Putin's input in this, I do not think that Plush or Putin will be satisfied until there is a second gold medal awarded to Plush. Back in 2002 when the IOC caved in to the Canadians' demands and awarded the second gold to Sale' and Pelletier, they set a precendent for a duplicate gold medal to be awarded. It was a stupid idea back then and it's a dangerously stupid idea today. However, the precedent exists and if Plush and Putin, et al, push hard enough the IOC will have no good excuse not to repeat the award of the second medal. If they decide not to do that they are risking a PR nightmare bigger than anything 2002 produced, lol, as well as possible legal action from Russia which could tie this disaster up in the international courts for decades, not to mention the expense of it. All this just goes to show you what happens when a controversial action isn't thought through before it's made.

As to the discussion comparing Yagudin's programs in the 2002 Olympics to those of Plush, today, there is no comparison because programs in 2002 were judged under the 6.0 system and today's competitions are judged under CoP. They are two entirely different systems. You can lay out all the points pro and con for both skaters and compare them to today's competitors but the botton line goes back to the specific differences between the two systems. The skills and elements are mostly the same but the manner in which they are judged is radically different, and that critically effects any comparison that can be drawn between them.

Mary C.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)   

Back to top Go down
 
Vancouver -Mens event (SP&LP)
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 15 of 18Go to page : Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Brian Joubert Discussion Group :: Olympics Winter Games Vancouver 2010 :: Only for the olympics games-
Jump to: