
International community about the 2007 world champion Brian Joubert and figure skating. |
| | | Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future | |
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Gislaine The Boss

Number of posts: 11440 Localisation: Lyon ,France Registration date: 2006-06-10
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 09.03.10 14:14 | |
| Humph it is easy to say that it is denial etc but! Brian revealed things (that's true that Brian had some aggressiveness when he fell in trainings but towards him I have never seen him the being to his coach), it is true or not it history is one others! Other one go to consult a psychoanalyst or it is a step but needs him that the sportsman is ready for it! The most important that wants to make Brian for coming two years or more if affinity, LOL, with whom and which place... Provided that Brian takes back the pleasure of skating and which shows us this free programme with an intensity because Maxim and Albena made a sacred work but I am frustrated not to have seen him skating "properly ".. Hum c'est facile de dire que c'est le déni etc mais .... !Brian a révélé des choses( c'est vrai que Brian avait une certaine agressivité lorsqu'il chutait en entraînements mais envers lui je ne l'ai jamais vu l'être auprès de son coach ... ) , est-ce vrai ou pas c'est une autres histoire! Allez consulter un psy ou autre c'est une démarche mais faut il que le sportif soit prêt pour cela ! Le plus important que veut faire Brian pour les deux années à venir ou plus si affinités ,LOL , avec qui et quel lieu ...Pourvu que Brian reprenne du plaisir de patiner et qui nous montre ce programme libre avec une intensité car Maxim et Albena ont fait un sacré boulot mais je suis frustrée de ne pas l'avoir vu patiner "proprement" .. _________________ Gislaine |
|  | | Bladette Time

Number of posts: 820 Age: 31 Registration date: 2009-07-15
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 06.04.10 18:48 | |
| from 9.30 forward: http://info.francetelevisions.fr/video-info/player_html/index-fr.php?id-video=7E65D4DA5F9C4CCAB781CC07DC6FC506_cafe_lpc_040420102007_F3&chaine=&id-categorie=JOURNAUX_LES_EDITIONS_REGIONALES_POITOU_CHARENTES&ids=&timecode=false&sequence=false Could someone please translate, I don't understand everything.  I'm so happy that Brian will change both of his programmes!! And I'm happy that he continues at least part time with Laurent.  |
|  | | lonnie Love's divine
Number of posts: 165 Age: 46 Registration date: 2009-10-18
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 06.04.10 21:32 | |
| I don't speak a word of French (OK, maybe 5) so I will wait to hear whatever he had to say, but I have to say that from what we saw in Torino, Brian seems to have found great rapport with Laurent. The way they treated each other at the rinkside and in the K&C, as well as what they each said in the eurosport interviews, made me think it is finally working.
I don't think Brian needs a world-class, big-name coach. It's not as if he needs to learn some new elements or build a new strategy. A change of atmosphere might do him good, but it might not. What he needs is (a) a good choreographer, who understands CoP and can tailor something new and interesting to Brian's unique style (in today's skating world his style is unique) (b) to find his focus and stop psyching himself out before a competition (c) someone who will encourage him to go all out, not skate safe - it seems to me that he was trying to do that this year, only it did not work well due to lack of (b) and (d) someone with good taste to design his costumes. How can someone so good lokking, with such a "miracle" body, wear such ugly, busy or ridiculous costumes which detract from his beautiful lines instead of accentuate them? (can I do that? can I? prett please...)
Maybe Tarasova as choreographer wouldn't be such a bad choice. I did not like what she did for Mao at all, she took a delicate sprite and gave her heavy music, heavy choreography and costumes queen Victoria would approve of, but Brian would do well with heavy music and choreo, and she does manage level 4s without succumbing to ugly high kicks and kiss-the-ice moves...
Lonnie |
|  | | zandor Daft Punk

Number of posts: 2930 Age: 23 Localisation: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Registration date: 2006-09-29
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 06.04.10 23:01 | |
| Please, no TAT!  As much as I love her, unfortunately, she showed that even now she didn't managed well COP. Plus, her music choices are awful and outdated. I don't undestand why she thinks she knows about fashion costumes for skaters...In fact, even Queen Victoria should be knock down with TAT outfits. If Brian will keep to skate with the same old vision he had, I'm affraid that he didn't learned nothing from Vancouver. Yes, he did pretty well in Turim but could say he won't bomb agian without sport phsycologist, change of enviroment and etc? To change sometimes can be hurt but to grow is necessary. ______________ Izadora  |
|  | | zandor Daft Punk

Number of posts: 2930 Age: 23 Localisation: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Registration date: 2006-09-29
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 1:02 | |
| Bladette, thank you for the link! Brian said that he will keep his entourage: coach and choreographers. And also, he will stay at Poitiers  but will travel sometimes to Russia or USA(he doesn't know yet) just to change his routine. He mentioned something about Elvis Stoijko which I didn't understand well, but I suspect that Brian said that he will work with him. ____________ Izadora  |
|  | | Blue Bead Moderator
Number of posts: 1994 Age: 65 Localisation: Ohio, USA Registration date: 2006-06-13
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 4:02 | |
| zandor wrote: | Quote: | He mentioned something about Elvis Stoijko which I didn't understand well, but I suspect that Brian said that he will work with him.
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I think I can "hear" the Brian bashers over at FSU gearing up for blast off on another round of anti-Elvis rants if there would be any truth in the idea that Brian may work/train part time with Stoijko. After Elvis' unpopular remarks during the Olympics in the interviews done with him and his blog, the anti-Elvis groups will have fresh fodder to verbally beat both Brian and Elvis into the soil. I hope we hear soon what Brian's plans are so we can prepare for the onslaught against him; it won't be a pretty sight. If Brian does work with Elvis, I would think he'd be going to Mexico because that's where Elvis currently lives and coaches. I wonder who he'd be working with in the US, though. There aren't many coaches with openings for elite skaters.
I agree with Iza, TAT would not be a good choice for Brian although he thinks highly of her opinion. Tarasova does not understand the inner workings of CoP very well; that's been shown, time and again, in the programs she's created for other skaters, Mao being the latest and best example. Also, I definitely wouldn't want her to have any hand in the design of Brian's costumes, LOL...oh, good Lord, no! LOL (closing my eyes, shaking my head to clear the horrific Tarasova costume visions from my brain, lol). Her costume ideas work best for on-ice theater productions and she should concentrate her efforts to those ends only.
Mary C. |
|  | | Bladette Time

Number of posts: 820 Age: 31 Registration date: 2009-07-15
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 10:35 | |
| Here is what I understand it after listening a couple of times:
First Raymonde says that Brian has rebounded and after Vancouver it was mentally very difficult time for him. DG says he is a great champion and blablabla. Laurent says that the season ended well and it’s a good feeling. They ask Brian about Chan winning him without quad and Brian says that now we have both Olympic and World champion without quad. The system doesn’t award on it but Brian thinks this is a sport and wants to take risks. Quads take so much energy that it’s difficult to do transitions. DG WANTS TO CHANGE THIS AND PROPOSES MORE POINTS TO QUADS in the ISU summer meeting. Brian would be very happy of the change because mentally it’s difficult to quad vs. triples. He will change both SP and LP. He will keep Laurent, Albena and Maxim. He stays in Poitiers and will travel from there to US or Russia, it’s not sure yet. They ask if he will improve his artistic side and he says that Elvis Stojko (thanks Zandor) is now in Paris for the show and why not with him??!! He doesn’t know if Albena&Maxim make choreo for LP and someone else for the SP. Or the other way. The preparation for the Vancouver was difficult (injuries etc.). Now everything is OK.
I can't believe my french is improved so much after listening Brian's interviews, lol!! I don't think TAT would be a good choice either. And she is not feeling well either, can't travel much etc. And I don't think Albena and Maxim know enough about the judging system. And if the quad doesn't get more points in the international meeting it will be HARD for Brian.
Last edited by Bladette on 07.04.10 11:05; edited 1 time in total |
|  | | mba83 Lord of the Dance

Number of posts: 1747 Age: 28 Localisation: Poland Registration date: 2008-10-07
 | |  | | Sheena Moderator

Number of posts: 5257 Localisation: Ireland Registration date: 2006-06-13
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 17:21 | |
| What I'm starting to think that Brian needs is a good "jump"coach who can help him hone up his jumps again & improve the goe on them. His jumps used to be better - huge & amazing with great run-out - maybe all the work on everything else has cost them - but I'm sure he can get them back to where they used to be, or even better.
Maybe this is where Elvis could help (I really don't see him as an artistic coach!) & as Kevin's 4/3/3 at Worlds shows there are still good points to be had for well executed jumps & I believe that this should be Brian's first aim - along with maintaining his levels in spins & footwork during competitions (no more cutting a spin short as in Worlds!). He could see where this gets him & then set about adding a few groovy little moves into elements up to, say, 3 lutz - I defy even Patrick Chan to do transitions into a successful 3 axel or quad!
I'm not sure who to suggest as another choregrapher - Stannick Jeannette perhaps? I think that TAT is best at having her skaters at their peak at the big moments (look at her number of Olympic champions!) though her health is worryingly poor now. _________________ ~Sheena~
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield" from 'Ulysses' by Alfred, Lord Tennyson (London Olympics 2012 motto)
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|  | | Blue Bead Moderator
Number of posts: 1994 Age: 65 Localisation: Ohio, USA Registration date: 2006-06-13
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 18:05 | |
| Bladette thank you for your French translations skills; you understand the language way better than I do, lol. Sheena wrote:| Quote: | What I'm starting to think that Brian needs is a good "jump"coach who can help him hone up his jumps again & improve the goe on them. His jumps used to be better - huge & amazing with great run-out - maybe all the work on everything else has cost them - but I'm sure he can get them back to where they used to be, or even better.
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I have to agree with Sheena's assessment, here. I'm guessing that one of the reasons his current jumps lack that "huge & amazing" quality with their desirable run-out, which was such a trademark for him a few years ago, is that it's difficult (if not almost impossible, lol) to have great run-outs when you must cram in transitions between the jumps or jumping passes, ala P. Chan. This is why Chan's programs are so damned stuffed full of everything imaginable to the point that watching those programs isn't enjoyable from the program's standpoint. To be CoP-friendly programs must have all these points-gaining elements stacked one on top of the other and doing so just kills any beauty the program might have had, otherwise, and there's certainly no room for those beautiful run-outs.
I also think Brian has put so much effort into his spins that the execution of his jumps has deteriorated somewhat, and that a jump coach is warranted. Elvis could be a good choice in that respect.
Bladette wrote:
| Quote: | DG WANTS TO CHANGE THIS AND PROPOSES MORE POINTS TO QUADS in the ISU summer meeting.
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Whether this gets done depends on how much clout DG has with the ISU, and after his past record of misdoings associated with the vote trading at the Salt Lake City Olympics, I wouldn't count on this happening. There are a lot of voting members in the organization who don't like him (and rightfully so, lol). It will depend on how many of the European voting members he can sway to his side of the issue to do a considerable bit of politicing and vote as a unified bloc to get this passed.
| Quote: | | And if the quad doesn't get more points in the international meeting it will be HARD for Brian. |
If the quad doesn't get more points it will be more than "hard" for Brian; it will be darn near impossible to gain gold medals, if he can make it to the podium at all. If the increase in quad points fails Brian will have to re-evaluate his approach to programs and go with choreographers who can maximize points rather than showcase big jumps.
Mary C. |
|  | | lonnie Love's divine
Number of posts: 165 Age: 46 Registration date: 2009-10-18
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 19:09 | |
| | Blue Bead wrote: | Bladette thank you for your French translations skills; you understand the language way better than I do, lol. Sheena wrote:
| Quote: | What I'm starting to think that Brian needs is a good "jump"coach who can help him hone up his jumps again & improve the goe on them. His jumps used to be better - huge & amazing with great run-out - maybe all the work on everything else has cost them - but I'm sure he can get them back to where they used to be, or even better.
|
I have to agree with Sheena's assessment, here. I'm guessing that one of the reasons his current jumps lack that "huge & amazing" quality with their desirable run-out, which was such a trademark for him a few years ago, is that it's difficult (if not almost impossible, lol) to have great run-outs when you must cram in transitions between the jumps or jumping passes, ala P. Chan. This is why Chan's programs are so damned stuffed full of everything imaginable to the point that watching those programs isn't enjoyable from the program's standpoint. To be CoP-friendly programs must have all these points-gaining elements stacked one on top of the other and doing so just kills any beauty the program might have had, otherwise, and there's certainly no room for those beautiful run-outs.
I also think Brian has put so much effort into his spins that the execution of his jumps has deteriorated somewhat, and that a jump coach is warranted. Elvis could be a good choice in that respect. |
I don't know, he still has those huge and beautiful jumps, they just don't always appear in competition. Is it a technical issue, not being as consistent about them as in the past, or is it a confidence issue, being too tense (and a bit too slow) to get them right? In any case, a jump coach wouldn't hurt, but I doubt Elvis is the one. I admire his competitive spirit, his nerves of steel, his integrity in being true to himself and following a different drum, his dedication to pushing the envelope technically, but he never had really beautuful jumps. He used to muscle through them and had awfully long setups (impossible under CoP). He was admirably consistent, though.
Also, Elvis cannot really be considered "artistic", especially not in today's world. Although I have to say that a couple of months ago I went back to Nagano and watched both his and Kulik's free rogram. It was interesting to see how empty Kulik's program really was and how many transitions Elvis had in his...
| Quote: | Bladette wrote:
| Quote: | DG WANTS TO CHANGE THIS AND PROPOSES MORE POINTS TO QUADS in the ISU summer meeting.
|
Whether this gets done depends on how much clout DG has with the ISU, and after his past record of misdoings associated with the vote trading at the Salt Lake City Olympics, I wouldn't count on this happening. There are a lot of voting members in the organization who don't like him (and rightfully so, lol). It will depend on how many of the European voting members he can sway to his side of the issue to do a considerable bit of politicing and vote as a unified bloc to get this passed. |
The key is to get other federations which have been hurt by the shift in CoP - mainly Russia (Plushy vs. Evan) and Japan (Mao vs Kim and the 3A issue). It is interesting to note that all top Japanese men go for quads in their free programs, although their success rate is not very high, and many times they are hurt badly (pointwise) because of it. Japan is a strong federation and Russia still carries a lot of clout in Europe, if not worldwide.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | And if the quad doesn't get more points in the international meeting it will be HARD for Brian. |
If the quad doesn't get more points it will be more than "hard" for Brian; it will be darn near impossible to gain gold medals, if he can make it to the podium at all. If the increase in quad points fails Brian will have to re-evaluate his approach to programs and go with choreographers who can maximize points rather than showcase big jumps.
Mary C. |
Yeah, well, I agree that without more points for quads Brian does not stand a chance of ever winning again, unless he changes his attitude completely, but I don't believe he will and I, for one, don't want him to. We have enough of busy programs with "small jumps" (as opposed to "big jumps"). The reason I love Brian's skating so much is that he is different.
Lonnie |
|  | | Nona SOS d'un terrien en detresse

Number of posts: 4707 Age: 25 Localisation: Wijk bij Duurstede, Pays bas Registration date: 2006-06-13
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 22:44 | |
| | Quote: | | hat I'm starting to think that Brian needs is a good "jump"coach who can help him hone up his jumps again & improve the goe on them. His jumps used to be better - huge & amazing with great run-out - maybe all the work on everything else has cost them |
I agree totaly on this! There needs to be someone who is able to improve his jumps specialy his triple lutz where he had many problems with over the season.
| Quote: | Bladette wrote: Quote: DG WANTS TO CHANGE THIS AND PROPOSES MORE POINTS TO QUADS in the ISU summer meeting.
| Quote: | Whether this gets done depends on how much clout DG has with the ISU, and after his past record of misdoings associated with the vote trading at the Salt Lake City Olympics, I wouldn't count on this happening. There are a lot of voting members in the organization who don't like him (and rightfully so, lol). It will depend on how many of the European voting members he can sway to his side of the issue to do a considerable bit of politicing and vote as a unified bloc to get this passed. |
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So there really is going to be an ISU meeting! does anyone know when? Maybe Russia will support and other european countries!... who knows Even though the chance might be small it's better worth trying then don't do anything at all.
| Quote: | | He will change both SP and LP. He will keep Laurent, Albena and Maxim. |
he needed to change his SP cause he has been skating on it for two seasons now, but his LP was pretty good, if they could only improve the step sequence level from 3 to 4....
Thank you so much Bladette for the summary! That gives us some information for the next seson already!_________________ ¨°ºManonº°¨ |
|  | | JielinL Untouchable

Number of posts: 132 Age: 16 Localisation: Canada Registration date: 2010-03-26
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 07.04.10 22:52 | |
| | Quote: | | If the quad doesn't get more points it will be more than "hard" for Brian; it will be darn near impossible to gain gold medals, if he can make it to the podium at all. If the increase in quad points fails Brian will have to re-evaluate his approach to programs and go with choreographers who can maximize points rather than showcase big jumps. |
Lets start crossing fingers then, and hope that it will pass and quad wil in turn gain more points. For one, I agree with loonie, frankly, there are enough people doing the "safe" programs. And even if he does change his mind and go for the points/gold, it wouldn't be the same, watching his programs without a single quad in them. Oh, the number of times I've hear or seen annoucers and journalists introduce him as the one with the great jumps. Just would not feel right... Too sad to go on.
Great job being the optimist though, Manon. You're right, a small chance is better than nothing.  |
|  | | Bladette Time

Number of posts: 820 Age: 31 Registration date: 2009-07-15
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 08.04.10 12:41 | |
| Yes, and I think that it will also be mentally difficult for Brian if quads don’t get more value. He has said it so many times in interviews that he will keep on doing the quads and hopefully the system will change. If it doesn’t change it can be frustrating for him. It is very difficult to change skating style, he has been skating in a very athletic and dynamic way for all of his life and I think it can be almost impossible to chance the style all of a sudden. And his body type is very muscular and athletic too, he is not as flexible as Chan, Plushenko et al. So I think whatever happens in the ISU meeting in June, he will stick to his style. And if I remember correctly, Albena and Maxim had planned more transitions for Ancient Lands but they bothered Brian to concentrate his jumps and he left at least some of them out. I really hope they will add some more points to quads so that we might see Brian winning again! The thought that Brezina was so close in Worlds to get the bronze and Brian would have been fourth with total three quads is just unbearable…. |
|  | | 6marinka James Bond

Number of posts: 1006 Age: 32 Localisation: Slovakia Registration date: 2007-12-08
 | Subject: Re: Brian & coaching issues - past, present , future 08.04.10 13:27 | |
| Thanks for the translation, ladies!! I mostly agree with the thought that Brian´s needs to get back the sureness in his jumping. It happened so many times before that when he was in top jumping form, he could do practically anything on the ice and also the transitions, footwork and all of his presentation was much more different (meaning much more effective and powerful and getting high scores). Besides, when you are sure about your jumping, you can concentrate on other things like spins , transitions etc. So, from this point of view, Elvis is probably the best choice for him as a TECHNICAL adviser (not to speak about Elvis´s spins, which were always, and boy, they still are, perfectly centered and done in huge speed). And also, Elvis has always been known for his mental strength whatever happened on the ice for him, he always managed to focus and concentrate and deliver the best he could do considering even the worst conditions. That´s the collaboration I was always hoping for Brian (speaking about this point), so I hope it will work out somehow... As for choreography, I think Albena & Maxim did a very good job and if the talks about the omitted transitions are true, and they WILL include more transitions into programme for Brian, I think they could be a good "thing" for him  Honestly, I have no idea who I would pick for Brian to do choreography for him. I´m just sure I wouldn´t pick Lori Nicol  |
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