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 Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010

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Itsfun
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 14:29

Thanks missviolet!
I'm wondering, how did you manage to find the video - it has quite strange name!

Alban's program seems to be very funny, as nearly always Very Happy I like it.
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Yulie
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 14:38

missviolet wrote:
why people dont name the file like alban preaubert skate canada 2010? it would be very easy to find...
Because often one of the channels that has the broadcast rights will block videos for copyright reasons, and even get people's accounts suspended. So what some Youtube users do is give the videos less obvious names and then share them through word of mouth.

That was a really fun program - thanks for sharing the link!
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 17:25

Yulie wrote:
missviolet wrote:
why people dont name the file like alban preaubert skate canada 2010? it would be very easy to find...
Because often one of the channels that has the broadcast rights will block videos for copyright reasons, and even get people's accounts suspended. So what some Youtube users do is give the videos less obvious names and then share them through word of mouth.

That was a really fun program - thanks for sharing the link!

thats what i thought Very Happy
pleasure is on my side lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 17:39

So.....P. Chan has finally seen the light, re quads?!!! LOL It's too bad he hasn't also seen the light about his snarky mouth (from past interviews), although his dismal showing the in SP may change that and help him to button his lips.

I have to admit I laughed out loud when I saw his SP scores...and at Skate Canada !!!, no less. If there was ever a deserved punishment for Patrick---that was it! No doubt about it, lol. It will be very interesting to see what he does in the FP. Will he bomb completely? Or will he atone with a reasonable come-back? Time will tell....

After this comp is over, PC should write a note of apology to Brian for the nasty things he's said about him, re quads, etc. Chan badly needs to be eating a very large piece of humble pie. In fact he ought to eat a whole pie!

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 17:48

Blue Bead wrote:
So.....P. Chan has finally seen the light, re quads?!!! LOL It's too bad he hasn't also seen the light about his snarky mouth (from past interviews), although his dismal showing the in SP may change that and help him to button his lips.
.
.
.

After this comp is over, PC should write a note of apology to Brian for the nasty things he's said about him, re quads, etc. Chan badly needs to be eating a very large piece of humble pie. In fact he ought to eat a whole pie!
I thought Chan's comments re the quad this week were basically him admitting that he was wrong and that now he can see things from the quad proponents' perspective. Also, as Brian foresaw, Chan seems to have realized that doing a quad has a big effect on the rest of the program and it's not just one element lasting a second or so. To his credit, Chan went for it, and even though he failed (and was overscored, which I suspect he knows), it's a positive development to see more SP quads.

I'm not a fan of Chan's skating and I don't appreciate many of his comments, but I don't think he was out of line this time, and I give him props for putting the quad in his SP despite having very little experience doing it. I wish more skaters were as gutsy with their quad attempts.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 17:59

Thanks missviolet! I wrote only his name so I couldn't find it.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 21:36

I have problem with conection on live broadcasting but I read P. Chan go 166,36 points. It's ridiculous pale I'm shock , so much I'm going to sleep, I dislike that man's competition in Canada!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 22:06

Men's Final Result
1 Patrick CHAN
CAN
239.52 4 1
2 Nobunari ODA
JPN
236.52 1 3
3 Adam RIPPON
USA
233.04 3 2
4 Kevin REYNOLDS
CAN
218.65 2 6
5 Javier FERNANDEZ
ESP
210.85 6 4
6 Alban PREAUBERT
FRA
209.05 5 5
7 Artur GACHINSKI
RUS
204.08 7 7
8 Jeremy TEN
CAN
191.86 9 8
9 Yasuharu NANRI
JPN
188.96 8 9
10 Grant HOCHSTEIN
USA
181.65 12 10
11 Kristoffer BERNTSSON
SWE
175.84 11 11
12 Paolo BACCHINI
ITA
167.60 10 12

What a joke.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    30.10.10 22:13

OMG, IT STINKS SO BAAD! I CAN'T BREATHE!! Wait, wait, I know this smell - it's *drum sound* CORRRRUPTIONN!!!

It's soo bad, it's not even funny anymore grrrrrrrrrmur
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    31.10.10 9:31

Chan is a great skater but he made looooots of mistakes and he his still first? confused
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    31.10.10 9:49

I thought this from Chan was hilarious: "Now that I've added the quad to my arsenal, I think I've stepped up to the Brian [Joubert] and Daisuke [Takahashi] level. It's taken a while with the quad." (IN article)

A lot of people seem to be upset about the statement, but whether he intended it or night, Chan was saying that Brian and Dai are skaters to look up to and ones whose level he was beneath in some ways. Which is considerably more humble than some of his past comments. The scores he got are ridiculous, though.

The pairs event was surprisingly not awful, and I'm pleased with the ladies' results.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    31.10.10 10:17

when i watched mens comepetition live, i was like.... OMG,OMG... nearly everyone was so clean, we have seen many perfect jumps and performances and then, guess what, came PATRICK... dont get me wrong, i like his skating, but how could he win with overall 4 falls? and what about shaky landings? i have read somewhere: "so now we know who will be world champion 2011,2012,2013 an olympic gold medalist"
its really unmotivating for other skaters... if patrick is going to get those kind of scores for those kind of performances he is going to be nearly unbeatable.... because really, he doesnt even need to land all his jumps... dissapointed about judging... Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    31.10.10 11:52

Chan's socre still seems like a bad joke to me grrrrrrrrrmur
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    31.10.10 17:15

The judging of the men's competition was a joke. Than Chan got the marks he did was just plain wrong. 4 falls?!!! How do you get a gold medal with 1-2-3-4 falls?!! Now, if Brian did four falls where to you think he'd be if he were skating at Skate Canada? I'll tell you one thing---he wouldn't have a gold medal around his neck and media would be throwing perverbial stones at him in their reports! However, let P. Chan do it and he's Canada's golden boy; the greatest skater of the century---the one who can do no wrong. Don't get me wrong, lol, his edges are superb, he has musicality and great flow, but he is not the be-all, end-all that some of these judges think he is. The time will come when Patrick gets his just due (I just hope Brian is the one who dishes it out to him). More than that, I hope the time is not far off when the judges, who insist on falling under the P. Chan spell and giving him marks he doesn't deserve, get their punishment as well.

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    31.10.10 18:18

Blue Bead wrote:
The time will come when Patrick gets his just due (I just hope Brian is the one who dishes it out to him).

ITA Mary. If not Brian (and I so hope it is), then maybe it could be one of Chan's countrymen- Kevin Reynolds. As Kevin continues to develop his artistry, he could overthrow Chan as the top Canadian male skater. Kevin R is a quad machine.

Ice Dance Final Result
1 Vanessa CRONE / Paul POIRIER
CAN
154.42 2 1
2 Sinead KERR / John KERR
GBR
149.80 1 3
3 Madison CHOCK / Greg ZUERLEIN
USA
139.05 4 4
4 Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM
CAN
138.16 6 2
5 Pernelle CARRON / Lloyd JONES
FRA
136.03 3 5
6 Kristina GORSHKOVA / Vitali BUTIKOV
RUS
127.45 5 6
7 Sarah ARNOLD / Justin TROJEK
CAN
107.64 8 7
8 Stefanie FROHBERG / Tim GIESEN
GER
105.10 7 8
9 Rachel TIBBETTS / Collin BRUBAKER
USA
95.86 9 9

Too bad about the Kerrs. They had mistake with one of their lifts, which was costly. Skate Canada has been a joke. Hopefully Cup of China will be judged more fairly.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    01.11.10 9:34

It is nice that you are so optimistic that Brian will beat Chan. When the fact is, Chan clearly is a judges favourite, even he himself admits it and for example in Turin got silver instead of Brian, because of the judges prefered him.

Brian should have chosen Lori Nichol as his coach, a person who lectures judges and uses Chan as an example of a perfection. And also lobbyes Chan with very good results.

How can someone fall 3 times in the SP and still get monster scores? Why didn't that happen to Brian in Olympics? Because he is not Canadian? I have always known that there is a lot of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes but the result of the men's skate was something I never knew could happen.

Chan can fall no matter how many times and still get better scores than Brian. I am sorry I'm very pessimistic that Brian will win the GPF or Worlds because of Chan.

Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    01.11.10 16:17

Bladette wrote:
Quote :
How can someone fall 3 times in the SP and still get monster scores? Why didn't that happen to Brian in Olympics? Because he is not Canadian? I have always known that there is a lot of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes but the result of the men's skate was something I never knew could happen.

I don't know that being "Canadian" has anything to do with this, although it might, lol. Who knows? Two things I think are important, one is that, from what I can tell from the protocols, no other men's singles skater got the leeway in his scores that Chan did. There some obvious bias displayed there. The second thing is that's an international panel of judges, so what we saw at Skate Canada has the likelihood of recurring in Chan's next GP competition and, most certainly at the Grand Prix Final. The questions that I have: 1) what do those judges gain by overmarking him and assuring him a gold medal placement, and 2) who is pushing them to do this and why? What do the judges who "cooperate" get in return? Is this a push by the federations involved and, if so, which federations are involved? This whole thing smells like the dirtiest of politics.

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 15:41

I didn't want to say anything after seeing that score. I agree with all the posts. This year Skate Canada was a dissapointment. I still can't get it. Brian had 160 points in the free of COR in 2006 and he did 3 quads and no mistakes and now Patrick gets 166 with fall and not all jumps were clean. If this continues at the following competitions I see Patrick world champion even if he doesn't have a good program. Both his short and free are great programs with difficult choreographies but he can't win if he falls 4 times. I think Brian's short at WO was better but he was 16th after short. Honestly, I can't understand this.

and a little general about the event;
I didn't watch ladies because except Valentina and Cynthia I din't know anyone else Embarassed I was sad that Vale wasn't at top 5. The Kerrs were of course the best in dance. Alban's SP was nice but the free didn't suit him. Nobunari was great and Kevin's quads were great but he has to improve at the other elements and artistic side.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 15:49

One of the things Chan had in his favor was the increased values for quad jumps. Couple that with the overly generous GOEs for his non-jump elements and you have the recipe for how a guy who falls all over the place manages to win a gold medal. (Disgust me to no end but that's beside the point, lol.)

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 16:32

Bublijojo wrote:
I didn't want to say anything after seeing that score. I agree with all the posts. This year Skate Canada was a dissapointment. I still can't get it. Brian had 160 points in the free of COR in 2006 and he did 3 quads and no mistakes and now Patrick gets 166 with fall and not all jumps were clean. If this continues at the following competitions I see Patrick world champion even if he doesn't have a good program. Both his short and free are great programs with difficult choreographies but he can't win if he falls 4 times. I think Brian's short at WO was better but he was 16th after short. Honestly, I can't understand this.
While I disagree with Chan's scoring, I don't think his LP score can really be compared to Brian's CoR skate from 2006. The scoring has changed, PCS in general has gone up (Brian's as well) and scores have been creeping upwards, even for imperfect performances (Brian's own overall competition PB is from 2010 Worlds, and he was hardly in top form in the LP in Turin). It's rather unusual that Brian's LP best is so old, and reflects his well-documented struggles in that segment of most events (only one LP win since 2007 Euros!).

Chan benefits from maxing his base score and checking off the bullet points for GOEs, thus offsetting his weaknesses on some of the jumps (e.g. lack of height and flow). It's not very exciting skating IMO, but that's how the game is played. You can check out Tony Wheeler's post in which he tried to score the skating objectively - he was very surprised to end up giving Chan a pretty good score for the LP.

Chan's SP was poor, but again I'm not sure there's much point comparing it to Brian in Vancouver (he was 18th in the short, BTW, 16th overall). The -GOEs for quads are lower this season, so the fall wasn't too costly. In addition, Chan completed a clean combination at SC and rotated all his jumps, something Brian didn't do at Olys. And SC did not have nearly as deep a field, so Chan didn't suffer too much in comparison to the other skaters. The bottom line is that Brian deserved his score back in February; it was a horrible skate and he wasn't into it once the jumps failed - the judges were as generous as they could be with the PCS considering what went on (for instance, 7.45 for P&E, which Brian certainly did not earn). Chan's score was too high, but even if SC had been judged correctly, he still shouldn't have been at the bottom of the pile after the SP. FWIW, his score would have had him in 12th place in Vancouver.
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 18:29

I've been seething for two days now. I know that it is only one competition and that the field was not very deep but still I find Chan's results outrageous and telling for what's to come.

I am not comparing Chan's programs to any of Brian's performances. They are too different skaters with different focus and the judges have shown us which focus they prefer, unfortunately. It is not surprising, figure skating and men's skating in particular has been going in that direction for some time – see Lysacek's OGM. At least Evan was clean.

Although it was Chan's SP that was so flawed, and his LP actually deserved to be first (on the LP only), it is his LP score that I find most offending. Did you know that this is the fifth best score of all times? The best two scores belong to Takahashi (4CC 2008 and WC 2010), then Plushy's OGM (2006), Lysacek's OGM and the fifth is… this… a quad and FIVE triples, none of which was spectacular in any way (the quad was very good, though). It was nearly 10 points better than Takahashi's score at NHK, where he landed a quad and SIX triples (including two Axles) – and we are not talking about Javier Fernandez or Kevin Reynolds here, we are talking about the reigning world champion and record holder.

I do not think it is a conspiracy by Skate Canada. In truth, the other Canadian men were not especially gifted by the judges. The kid gloves are reserved for Mr. Transitions alone. Something I read on one of the recent interviews might explain this special treatment. I can't remember where I read it, or I'd post a link, but he said something like "Lori Nichol speaks of me to the judges". Now, Nichol is the poster-girl for CoP choreography (choreographed for Evan) and as I understand it she also educates judges. She is also Chan's coach (explains why he dumped his old coach, maybe), and she educates the judges (who judge her protégé) what to look for in skaters - guess what she must be using for example? Is it any wonder the judges think the sun rises and shines on Mr. Chan? That "they really want to give him these marks"?

Lonnie
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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 18:51

lonnie wrote:
I can't remember where I read it, or I'd post a link, but he said something like "Lori Nichol speaks of me to the judges". Now, Nichol is the poster-girl for CoP choreography (choreographed for Evan) and as I understand it she also educates judges. She is also Chan's coach (explains why he dumped his old coach, maybe), and she educates the judges (who judge her protégé) what to look for in skaters - guess what she must be using for example? Is it any wonder the judges think the sun rises and shines on Mr. Chan? That "they really want to give him these marks"?
I'm pretty sure that quote was in the IN summary, and probably elsewhere. Like you, I find Nichol's role in this very inappropriate. This is a clear conflict of interest and someone needs to make sure that she either coaches and choreographs or works with judges - but certainly not both. Nobody who coaches active skaters should be involved in ISU judging or training, period (in the same way, I found it disturbing to see Marius Siudek on the NHK technical panel for pairs).

Another thing is that active skaters should never be used as examples when training judges, whether it Chan as a positive example or Plushenko last year as someone with no transitions (the Inman debacle). While I'd like to believe that judges are competent enough to form their own evaluations, putting an ISU-approved seal on subjective opinions is completely out of line. If an example of someone with good transitions is called for, there are plenty of retired skaters one could refer to (Jeff Buttle and Matt Savoie spring to mind). Same goes for other elements and components.

I'm sure confirmation bias is already and issue for judges and there's really no need to make things worse.

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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 19:12

Yulie wrote:
I'm sure confirmation bias is already and issue for judges and there's really no need to make things worse.


There is another thing. I think that judges are evaluated by comparison to one another and that they are advised to mark within a "corridor", meaning up to a certain difference from the other judges on the panel. If they mark outside said corridor they are subject to examination (I think this is how it works, I have not paid too much attention to the particulars).

If a judge thinks that other judges will mark a certain skater high, or maybe mark someone low (say on transitions), they would like to be in the same corridor as the rest of the panel and will mark according to how they think the others will mark. It's a kind of a self-sustained cycle.

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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 19:47

All I have to say about judges decisions on SC is STINKS! There's something rotten in the Skate Canada ...


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PostSubject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010    02.11.10 21:48

lonnie wrote:
So, Patrick Chan has seen the light...
Quote :
"I have no idea what happened, a combination of everything," Chan said. "When I missed the quad, I started doubting myself. The quad is a big jump; it's important to me. It was lack of experience; now I understand how guys who do it [all the time] feel. It's a learning process. I have no doubt I'll do it tomorrow."
(from here)

So putting in a risky element affects the rest of your program. Better write that down, kid.

Little piece of history: over 30 years ago, when IBM (then the biggest conglomerate in biz machines) decided to produce personal computers, the (then) tiny Apple company, who had been doing it for years, took up a full page ad saying "welcome, IBM, seriously" (look it up, it's entertaining). I feel like taking up an ad myself...

i just liked this so much i felt it needed reposting lol!

i decided to ignore chan existence, well i obviously fail miserably since i just mentioned him but what i mean is i will not watch his transition-full programs. i choose to be chan deprived.
but i will look at alban's program. thank you for the link and look for kevin too. i too love when people do something great and when they do it for the first time it's even more exciting !!!
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