Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010

Love's divine Number of posts: 165 Age: 46 Registration date: 2009-10-18

I've been seething for two days now. I know that it is only one competition and that the field was not very deep but still I find Chan's results outrageous and telling for what's to come.

I am not comparing Chan's programs to any of Brian's performances. They are too different skaters with different focus and the judges have shown us which focus they prefer, unfortunately. It is not surprising, figure skating and men's skating in particular has been going in that direction for some time – see Lysacek's OGM. At least Evan was clean.

Although it was Chan's SP that was so flawed, and his LP actually deserved to be first (on the LP only), it is his LP score that I find most offending. Did you know that this is the fifth best score of all times? The best two scores belong to Takahashi (4CC 2008 and WC 2010), then Plushy's OGM (2006), Lysacek's OGM and the fifth is… this… a quad and FIVE triples, none of which was spectacular in any way (the quad was very good, though). It was nearly 10 points better than Takahashi's score at NHK, where he landed a quad and SIX triples (including two Axles) – and we are not talking about Javier Fernandez or Kevin Reynolds here, we are talking about the reigning world champion and record holder.

I do not think it is a conspiracy by Skate Canada. In truth, the other Canadian men were not especially gifted by the judges. The kid gloves are reserved for Mr. Transitions alone. Something I read on one of the recent interviews might explain this special treatment. I can't remember where I read it, or I'd post a link, but he said something like "Lori Nichol speaks of me to the judges". Now, Nichol is the poster-girl for CoP choreography (choreographed for Evan) and as I understand it she also educates judges. She is also Chan's coach (explains why he dumped his old coach, maybe), and she educates the judges (who judge her protégé) what to look for in skaters - guess what she must be using for example? Is it any wonder the judges think the sun rises and shines on Mr. Chan? That "they really want to give him these marks"?

Lonnie

Subject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010 02.11.10 19:51

lonnie wrote:

I can't remember where I read it, or I'd post a link, but he said something like "Lori Nichol speaks of me to the judges". Now, Nichol is the poster-girl for CoP choreography (choreographed for Evan) and as I understand it she also educates judges. She is also Chan's coach (explains why he dumped his old coach, maybe), and she educates the judges (who judge her protégé) what to look for in skaters - guess what she must be using for example? Is it any wonder the judges think the sun rises and shines on Mr. Chan? That "they really want to give him these marks"?

I'm pretty sure that quote was in the IN summary, and probably elsewhere. Like you, I find Nichol's role in this very inappropriate. This is a clear conflict of interest and someone needs to make sure that she either coaches and choreographs or works with judges - but certainly not both. Nobody who coaches active skaters should be involved in ISU judging or training, period (in the same way, I found it disturbing to see Marius Siudek on the NHK technical panel for pairs).

Another thing is that active skaters should never be used as examples when training judges, whether it Chan as a positive example or Plushenko last year as someone with no transitions (the Inman debacle). While I'd like to believe that judges are competent enough to form their own evaluations, putting an ISU-approved seal on subjective opinions is completely out of line. If an example of someone with good transitions is called for, there are plenty of retired skaters one could refer to (Jeff Buttle and Matt Savoie spring to mind). Same goes for other elements and components.

I'm sure confirmation bias is already and issue for judges and there's really no need to make things worse.

Love's divine Number of posts: 165 Age: 46 Registration date: 2009-10-18

Yulie wrote:

I'm sure confirmation bias is already and issue for judges and there's really no need to make things worse.

There is another thing. I think that judges are evaluated by comparison to one another and that they are advised to mark within a "corridor", meaning up to a certain difference from the other judges on the panel. If they mark outside said corridor they are subject to examination (I think this is how it works, I have not paid too much attention to the particulars).

If a judge thinks that other judges will mark a certain skater high, or maybe mark someone low (say on transitions), they would like to be in the same corridor as the rest of the panel and will mark according to how they think the others will mark. It's a kind of a self-sustained cycle.

Lonnie

Subject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010 02.11.10 20:47

All I have to say about judges decisions on SC is STINKS! There's something rotten in the Skate Canada ...

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Izadora

Subject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010 02.11.10 22:48

lonnie wrote:

So, Patrick Chan has seen the light...

Quote:

"I have no idea what happened, a combination of everything," Chan said. "When I missed the quad, I started doubting myself. The quad is a big jump; it's important to me. It was lack of experience; now I understand how guys who do it [all the time] feel. It's a learning process. I have no doubt I'll do it tomorrow."

(from here)

So putting in a risky element affects the rest of your program. Better write that down, kid.

Little piece of history: over 30 years ago, when IBM (then the biggest conglomerate in biz machines) decided to produce personal computers, the (then) tiny Apple company, who had been doing it for years, took up a full page ad saying "welcome, IBM, seriously" (look it up, it's entertaining). I feel like taking up an ad myself...

i just liked this so much i felt it needed reposting lol!

i decided to ignore chan existence, well i obviously fail miserably since i just mentioned him but what i mean is i will not watch his transition-full programs. i choose to be chan deprived.
but i will look at alban's program. thank you for the link and look for kevin too. i too love when people do something great and when they do it for the first time it's even more exciting !!!

Subject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010 02.11.10 23:30

i just saw alban's sp and i like it a lot. it was fun and he made it look easy and i felt like he enjoyed doing it !
and i saw kevin'sp. not only he made history but his sp is fun and has interesting music !!
i am still enjoying kris's sp even if technically he was all over the place ! go kris keep me entertained !!!
adam is good, he's very good, he makes doughnuts spin look nice and i noticed that if you're dude, even a dude who figure skates that is not always easy, but still he does not get unde my skin.
javier is still fun-ish with a horrible costume.

i am off to find other links.

ps : found gala http://www.youtube.com/user/2010SkateCanada

and crone and poirier fd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUyozYNz2G8 beautiful program but those costumes colors kept scratching at my retina.

Subject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010 03.11.10 22:24

Quote:

What a joke.

Hahahaha this just cracked me up!

I was looking at the results in full concentration and at the last row I saw your comments Kiki!

_________________
¨°ºManonº°¨

Subject: Re: Grand Prix - Skate Canada - 25.10 - 31.10 2010 04.11.10 1:19

Nona wrote:

Quote:

What a joke.

Hahahaha this just cracked me up!

I was looking at the results in full concentration and at the last row I saw your comments Kiki!

LOL I didn't want to start my post with that, because it wouldn't make sense if I said that first. I'm glad you found it funny, Manon. This whole competition was a joke, especially Chan's scores. I felt so bad for Alban. He skated two great programs, and he wasn't rewarded for what he did.