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 European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP

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Yulie
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 18:33

I didn't watch, and I suppose that's for the best in hindsight. I figure by the time he got to the 3Lz he was too demoralized to even put a second jump at the end? Or something.

I'm not sure Brian will agree, but he probably should have retired on a high note after 2010 Worlds. And I would love for him to leave competitive skating and turn to shows; he'll be great at it. But I can't decide for him. So - best case scenario: Brian has a Lulu-like rise from the ashes and wins a bronze in Sochi. Worst case scenario: this is the end, and it's not a pretty one.

We all knew that some day Brian would not be on the Euros podium, and I'm sure all of us hoped it would be due to his retirement. But obviously that's not going to happen. Here's the thing, though: 10 consecutive podium finishes is an incredible achievement. 16 senior ISU Championship medals is an incredible achievement. To put both in perspective: the first ties him for an event record that will likely never be broken, while the second is more than any other living singles skater (I'm pretty sure - I can't find anyone with more).

Brian was an unknown when he won his first Euros medal, and the two other skaters on that podium have long since retired. He became a headcase as his career progressed. He was almost never considered the top guy. And he's had all sorts of medical issues. So he's accomplished a lot, despite facing quite a bit of adversity, and that's something I respect - even though he's neither the skater nor the competitor he used to be.

ETA: some comments from Brian.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 18:37

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Yulie
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 18:44

I just realized how much the judges and tech panel were willing to save him - good levels, really good PCS... but he didn't give them much to work with.

I actually don't mind the comments. He needs to put this behind him ASAP, maybe do a senior B before Worlds to pick up some points and get his confidence back.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 18:46

The worst thing is that imo he could have won this. He still has the beautiful jumps! And I can see how much he has worked; lost weight, improved the choreo and the costume etc. But now people just think that he is old and can't jump anymore, which is not the case. He is in great shape!
And I am afraid that these failures will make people forget what he has already achieved.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 20:05

Bladette wrote:
And I am afraid that these failures will make people forget what he has already achieved.
I think people who know skating are aware of what he's achieved (as I outlined earlier - quite a bit!). And Brian should be proud of what he's accomplished. Sustaining that sort of performance over a decade-long career with no breaks is not easy; just think of how many different skaters were on those podiums with him! Yags, Abt, Plush, Stanick, Klimkin, Lindemann, Lambiel, Verner, KvdP, Contesti and Flo - Yags and Plush are in a class of their own, but only Plushenko has done better than Brian in terms of both longevity and achievement. And even he hasn't won as many medals at Europeans (yet).

I don't think Brian really could have won. Circa-2009 Brian, maybe. But his career was built on great SPs, going all the way back to his first Euros. Once he lost consistency in that segment, it's just so much harder for him to do well... I do hope he can manage a good showing on Saturday. If he can at least get a small medal, that would be lovely - and it can be done, Yannick Ponsero actually won the free skate after a 9th place SP at 2009 Euros and just missed out on a medal.

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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 20:09

Bladette wrote:

And I am afraid that these failures will make people forget what he has already achieved.

this is exactly what i am thinking. for some reasons there are skaters that just won one main event, especially if that event is the olys and then they just retire and everybody talks about their great accomplishments.
brian had great programs during a hell of a long time. i think that to be in top 3 for so many years is such a great thing. because in 10 years, you grow up , you might change your outlook on life, and still he kept going.
he may have never been considered the first choice for the win but he almost always has risen to the challenge, except for the olys that were his curse.
for some reason France instead of being proud of him wants to mock him because he does not always succeed. oh well Rolling Eyes

somehow brian reminds me of frank sinatra's song - i did it my. he made many decisions that seem bad in retrospective and he still keeps doing them but at least we and he can't say he didn't do it his way.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 21:01


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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 21:16

thanks gis Smile
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 21:50

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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 23:49

Bublijojo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtXtVr7lHi8&feature=g-all-u&context=G26a29ffFAAAAAAAAAAA

I don't want to see him like that Sad

i dont understand nothing (only catastrophe and difficult), but i'm also sure i dont want to see him like in this interview ;<
could somebody write in english what he said?
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   26.01.12 23:56

@Anja, thank you for your encouraging words. Of course I will support Brian in the name of you.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 7:16

mit wrote:
Bublijojo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtXtVr7lHi8&feature=g-all-u&context=G26a29ffFAAAAAAAAAAA

I don't want to see him like that Sad

i dont understand nothing (only catastrophe and difficult), but i'm also sure i dont want to see him like in this interview ;<
could somebody write in english what he said?
I think it's probably what's appeared in the French media reports - it was a catastrophe, nothing felt right, and not to expect another LP comeback like last season (he's much further back this time, so this makes sense). I guess like Johnny Weir at the 2006 Olympics, Brian wasn't feeling his aura.

I watched the ending of the program because I wanted to see where the music cut was. It's too choppy, and the two parts really don't go together. He can't keep that for Worlds. So here's what I think Brian should do for the rest of the season:

1. Write off 2012 Euros. There's no point in dwelling on it, and other than try his best with the LP, it's out of his hands. If he needs to take away something positive, he got decent levels and landed a 3Lz. I guess that's something.
2. Call David Wilson immediately and sort out the SP. He can keep part of the choreo but the music edit has to be improved. Go to Toronto if necessary. If the program can't be salvaged, get a new one or revive All For You (hey, a girl can hope, right?).
3. Gailhaguet or Guyon need to get Brian to a good sports psychologist ASAP. Why DG hasn't put his foot down about this years ago is a mystery to me; it's not like he has a problem with bossing Brian around, and this is clearly necessary. Brian acknowledges that many of his issues are mental, and he has to do something about it.
4. Enter a senior B for ranking points and confidence. I vote for the Challenge Cup in early March.

If things go well in Nice, I think Brian should seriously consider following Jeffrey Buttle's example and leave on a high note. If things don't go well, he needs to figure out what he's trying to accomplish and how he wants to go about the rest of his career.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 9:17

Bublijojo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtXtVr7lHi8&feature=g-all-u&context=G26a29ffFAAAAAAAAAAA

He is explaining his feelings during the competition and that it's difficult to skate when your're feeling like that. At the end he says "c'est la vie", so he doesn't seem too upset.

Have you noticed how much he talks about his sensations? Sometimes they are good, sometimes bad (the Olympics), a couple of weeks ago he was getting back the sensations he had a some years ago, and now he didn't feel any sensations at all! If the reason for these meltdowns are his sensations then that's what he should focus on. Maybe he shouldn't analyze himself too much, maybe just forget everything he is feeling and just attack. I hope he will find someone who can help him with this. Maybe Veronique isn't able to give him this mental support enough, to make him strong again.

Tomas Verner has probably worked a lot with these kind of issues and finally he was able to do a clean skate (although there is still the LP left), so it's not impossible. I noticed how concentrated Verner was, he was almost skating in a trance. Still after a couple of seconds until the music stopped he was in his "character".

I don't think how important it is to think improving the choreography and things like before the Worlds. IMO, the main energy should just be focused on Brian's mental toughness when it comes to competing. What do you do with amazing choreo and spending thousands to Wilson, if you can't do the jumps?

PS. I hope Oliwka is OK!

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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 9:28

One more comment form Brian:

‘I was a little bit nervous but no more than usual. But this morning when I came on this ice for the first time, I didn't feel anything. I had no sensations. The warm-up was the same. Preparing for this event, I did a very good job, I worked a lot. But I made some mistakes because I was not ready for this competition. I still have to be focused, and I think I have to change some things. I really don’t know what will happen in the Free. I am little bit lost. I think the same thing might happen again. Today, I messed up three jumps, in the free program I have eight that I can mess up." ( http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/results_euros/2012%20Euro%20Men's%20SP.htm)



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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 9:47

Bladette wrote:
Have you noticed how much he talks about his sensations? Sometimes they are good, sometimes bad (the Olympics), a couple of weeks ago he was getting back the sensations he had a some years ago, and now he didn't feel any sensations at all! If the reason for these meltdowns are his sensations then that's what he should focus on. Maybe he shouldn't analyze himself too much, maybe just forget everything he is feeling and just attack. I hope he will find someone who can help him with this. Maybe Veronique isn't able to give him this mental support enough, to make him strongagain.
Yeah, I thought that was a strange comment; two years ago was the Olympics, and back then Brian was talking about how he needed to get back to how he was two-three years earlier! So basically he wants to go back to 2007? Yeah, don't we all, skating-wise Very Happy

Veronique is not trained to be a psychologist. She can give him support and work with him on some things, but there is only so much she can do on the mental side of things. He needs an expert.

Quote :
Tomas Verner has probably worked a lot with these kind of issues and finally he was able to do a clean skate (although there is still the LP left), so it's not impossible. I noticed how concentrated Verner was, he was almost skating in a trance. Still after a couple of seconds until the music stopped he was in his"character".
Unfortunately, we've seen Tomas skate fantastic SPs only to blow it completely in the LP (e.g. 2008 Worlds, 2009 Euros). If he can get through tomorrow without pulling one of his Hidden Czech routines, then maybe we can conclude that he's made some progress on the mental side. Honestly, whenever I think of Tomas and his career, Brian comes out looking like the model of calmness and consistency. Tomas could have been truly great if he'd sorted out the mental stuff; he's a superb skater and entertainer but such a headcase, and it's cost him time and again.

Quote :
I don't think how important it is to think improving the choreography and things like before the Worlds. IMO, the main energy should just be focused on Brian's mental toughness when it comes to competing. What do you do with amazing choreo and spending thousands to Wilson, if you can't do the jumps?
My point is, if he lands the jumps, the current SP is not a vehicle that will allow him to be competitive. He will not get the same PCS again; this was the judges' rescue attempt (and he should be very grateful, because he did not deserve some of those marks), not a reflection of the program's quality. I don't know what Wilson was thinking, but we know they can both do better - actually, my favorite men's SP of the season is by Wilson: Dai's Garden of Souls. It's stunning.

Technically, Brian has the jumps; my friend who's attending Euros was very impressed with his practices (I have learned not to expect anything even when his practice reports are good). So I agree the mental prep has to take priority. But he needs to have a program that will allow him to be competitive. There are almost two months until Worlds, and that's more than enough time to put together a better program. Nobody will catch Chan because the judges luuuuuv him, but on the right day and with a better program, Brian can still contend for the podium.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 13:31


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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 14:05

It's scary to read his comments about having eight jumps in the lp to mess up. It sounds like he doesn't have any control over his body. He has totally lost all of his confidence!
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 14:28

Bladette, Brian re-loses a small found confidence and I hope that he is going to fight for the free!

Brian passed all his jumps to training and he went well, this takes place in the head..


It is well to speak, to put flat but is it sufficient?
Go Brian, don't lower arms, enjoy to patinate Matrix this programme that you so much like! Here is my message!
Bladette , Brian reperd une petite confiance retrouvée et j'espère qu'il va se battre pour le libre!

Brian passait tous ses sauts à l'entraînement et il allait bien ,ça se passe dans sa tête ..


C'est bien de parler , de mettre à plat mais est-ce suffisant ?
Allez Brian , ne baisse pas les bras , prend du plaisir à patiner Matrix ce programme que tu aimes tant! Voilà mon message!

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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 16:13

http://youtu.be/jtXtVr7lHi8

« I am completely lost. During training everything is perfect, I arrive here and it's a catastrophe, 6 minutes' warm-up were a catastrophe....you can miss jumps, it can happen and it's no big deal, but what worried me is that I had no feelings, I didn't know where I was, so skating the program feeling that way was very difficult, but that's the way it is, that's life. »
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 16:32

Thanks Isa kisses !

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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 17:36

I'm sorry to hear that Brian has done so poorly. I'm afraid to see the video of the performance or the interview.

It sounds to me like Brian is having panic attacks.
It is possible to become so overwhelmed with anxiety that you cannot feel anything. Both the body and the mind becomes numb. It becomes impossible to think or move.

Lets hope he can battle for personal success in the free skate.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Championships are in San Jose, CA. My hometown! I'm trying to see if I can scrape up some money to see the ladies LP.

Laura
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 18:09

Girls, I was unable to write yesterday Sad Sad Sad
I feel horrible, I'm so sad and subdued!
I love Brian love and I pity him so much!!! cry3
He is a great skater and didn't deserve it! grrrrrrrrrmur

I watched sport after journal on the French channel, France 3 online.
I saw reactions of his mom, it was so horrible for me! pleures
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 19:34

Quote :
I saw reactions of his mom, it was so horrible for me!
Je n'ai pas vu ,pourquoi dis tu ça ?I did not see, why say you that?

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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 19:49

Gislaine wrote:
Quote :
I saw reactions of his mom, it was so horrible for me!
Je n'ai pas vu ,pourquoi dis tu ça ?

I saw sport at 20.00 on France 3 and reactions of Brian's mom who was on tribune and watched Brian's short program. She said something sad in French (I didn't understand what) and put her hand on the forehead and face.
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PostSubject: Re: European Championships 2012 Men SP & LP   27.01.12 20:36

Brian's comments in Kiss&Cry:
http://videos.tf1.fr/infos/2012/b-joubert-quand-je-faisais-le-con-ca-payait-plus-6956928.html

maybe it's a bit masochistic to watch this...
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