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Gislaine
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PostSubject: Footwork and Moves   13.06.06 19:25

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Love2Smile
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(8/3/05 12:56 am)
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Okay, here's a spot to talk more about footwork.

First, I'll answer Karen's question (or at least, what I remember of it, which was that she wanted to know what a choctaw is... Please let me know what the others were if you like, Karen )

*A choctaw is a step in which you start by gliding on a backward outside edge. You then step forward onto a forward inside edge on the opposite foot, and often this step is repeated two or more times in a row. It looks alot like mohawks, but the edging and placement of the feet are slightly different.
Often this step is performed by dancers at the end of their footwork sequences...

~Love2Smile!



Blue Bead
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(8/10/05 5:46 pm)
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Since compulsory figures have been eliminated from competitions, what incentives are in place for competitive skaters (or for that matter, recreational skaters) to learn good edge control?

I also was reading about something called a natural rotational edge. Is that just some fancy explanation for something that has a simpler name? LOL The material I was reading also made mention of "body preparation" for that "natural rotational edge." What were they talking about, and what is a "counter rotational edge"?

Mary C.

Love2Smile
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(8/11/05 12:07 am)
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It sounds, to me, like what you were reading was referring to the natural direction for a skater to travel, and "counter-rotational" would be the less natural way to go... Like a right handed person more naturally writes with the right hand, a normal rotator (skater) more naturally turns/goes to the left. That's what it seems to be saying, IMO, but then I haven't heard it specifically stated that way before, either, so I could be wrong...
But if I am right, the "body preperation" referred to should be the twisting of the waist, placement of the arms, body lean, etc. needed to get you where you need to go on the given edge.

About figures and learning edges....
US Figure Skating (USFS, formerly known as the US Figure Skating Association, the main association for figure skating in the USA) has replaced figures with Moves in the Field exercises that skaters must test before testing freestyle. Moves in the Field are designed to teach the skater controlled edges, extension, power, quickness, etc., by the precise skating of set patterns that are stated/explained in the USFS Rulebook. There are 8 levels; Pre-Preliminary, Preliminary, Pre-Juvenile, Juvenile, Intermediate, Novice, Junior, and Senior, to coincide with the freeskate test levels. For example, you must pass Senior Moves in the Field before you can even attempt to test the Senior freeskate. (I know I explained some of that before, but thought I'd explain it further in this thread ) Through this, US Figure Skating is trying to provide training exercises to ultimately help the skater to be a well-rounded athlete, with the ability to skate deep edges, have greater control over movements, with good extension and speed, etc., to go along with the jumps and spins of freeskating.
(I don't know if any other organizations/associations from different countries have anything similar to this, but this is an example of what USFS has done to replace figures.)

~Love2Smile!!

SheenaVivien
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(8/11/05 10:38 am)
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In the UK the old school figures have also been replaced by 'Moves in the Field'. Stuart, my teacher, was always good at "figures" so he was a bit uncertain about the new version, but he now likes it as he thinks it teaches the edges in a more natural way. In the old figures you used to do everything in a small area, from standstill....

Sheena

Love2Smile
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(8/11/05 10:56 pm)
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Yes, I really like how you can actually move while doing Moves... It makes it much more interesting IMO.

~Love2Smile!

Love2Smile
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(8/16/05 11:18 am)
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I thought I'd move on to Counters and Rockers.

**Keep in mind that regular 3-turns go from outside edge to inside edge, or from inside edge to outside edge. Also, every 3-turn makes a mark on the ice that "points" in one direction or the other... Picture a big "3" mark on the ice- see the middle line/point of the number "3"? That's where the turn takes place. A regular 3-turn makes a mark that looks exactly like a 3, with the outside edge entry, the turn, then the inside edge exit (if you are doing an outside 3-turn). But if you look at the markings of a rocker or a counter, it'd be like looking at a "3" with the top half of the 3 being flipped around, or going in the opposite direction... (you could also envision it to be like the figure 8 shape, but with, for example, the top right half and the bottom left half of those two circles being cut off to make the marking of a rocker or a counter...) Hopefully that's not too confusing!

*In an outside edge counter or rocker turn, you turn going from an outside edge to an outside edge.
In an inside edge counter or rocker turn, you turn going from an inside edge to an inside edge.

The difference between the rocker and counter is that a counter's turn points toward the direction of travel, and a rocker's turn points away from the direction of travel. Remember the middle "point" of the shape of the number 3? take that point and point it towards or away from the direction of travel, then add the correct edge markings, and you'd have the markings for the counter or the rocker.

Those details, the edges entering and exiting the turns, and the way the mark of the turn is pointing, are what seperates these turns from regular 3-turns.

~Love2Smile!

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Gislaine
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PostSubject: Re: Footwork and Moves   13.06.06 19:26

Blue Bead
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(8/16/05 2:37 pm)
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Thanks, Heidi, for the explanation for counters and rockers. Now that I know what they are and how their tracings appear on the ice, what are they used for? Are they specifically used in ice dance or would one see them in freestyle as well?

Mary C.

Love2Smile
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(8/17/05 12:39 am)
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Yes, they can be used for footwork or dance.

~Love2Smile!

Blue Bead
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(12/17/05 9:44 pm)
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While I was reading at Skate Fans this afternoon I found a link to a site which explains stuff like 3-turns, brackets, counters, choctaws and the like with both words and diagrams.

www.angelfire.com/il2/figskating/branches/turns.html
Of course reading all this provoked questions, LOL. 3-turns and brackets I can recognize on sight and can understand when and why they are used. What I want to know is when are counters, choctaws, mohawks and rockers used? Can you give me typical examples of when these moves would be used so that I can look for them on the various skating videos I have? With the current CoP I'm assuming that these movements are what makes up the entrance moves before various jumps, as well as the connecting moves between jumps and other elements. Can you point out any of these in Brian's current programs since I've got all of them on tape?

Mary C. (edited because I'm redundant, LOL)


Edited by: Blue Bead at: 12/17/05 9:50 pm

Love2Smile
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(12/19/05 5:02 pm)
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Sure, Mary.

Mohawks are often used as the entrance step into flip jumps, which is what Brian does. Some other people, like Sasha Cohen, do 3 turns into their flips.
Evan Lysacek does a swing roll / mohawk into his triple salchow... (a swing roll is when you swing the freeleg forward as you "roll" through the edge.)

Choctaws are often used in footwork and are popular to use in footwork preceding a flip jump.
In his SP, Brian does a choctaw-type step in his footwork leading into his triple flip. (I say "choctaw-type" because he doesn't quite pick up his right foot to make it a full one, but you get the idea from the way his feet move.)

Rockers and counters are generally used in footwork sequences and connecting moves.

As an interesting example, Brian's SP circular footwork sequence is as follows:
(I may correct some of this later if I am mistaken on any of the steps, I attempted to remember them all, but this way you can get an idea of what he's doing...)

Toe hop, mohawk to turn backwards
Double inside rocker
Inside rocker with interesting freeleg variation
Toe turn / hop
1 foot turns
Choctaw
Inside double 3 turn
Inside edged two foot glide with "gun"
Inside edge with upper body movement
Right foot double 3 turn
Push into choctaw
2 quick rockers
Twizzle with arms overhead
Toe hop
1 foot turn
Cross behind
Forward outside rocker
Back inside counter
Toe hop
Running step
Left forward outside to inside change of edge, 3 turn, crossover
Right back outside 3 turn into inside rocker
Power pulls
Choctaw
Right back inside double 3 turn
Aaaand... "duck!" (lol, my favorite part!! )
2 mazurka jumps to finish

~









Katya0812
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(12/21/05 12:04 pm)
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Wow Heidi ... Nikolai would be proud to know you studied it so closely! There should me more to add to it when you see it again at Euros
~Katya

Blue Bead
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(12/21/05 12:28 pm)
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Thanks, Heidi! That is just the kind of information I wanted. Now I can make a studied look at the most recent Brian program tape to see how those movements appear in motion.

Mary C.

SheenaVivien
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(12/22/05 7:48 am)
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So they are working on adding to Brian's programmes?? Good news!

Sheena

Katya0812
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(12/22/05 10:02 am)
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They worked in Paris after TEB Sheena, Nikolai and Brian that is.
~Katya

Love2Smile
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(12/23/05 12:31 am)
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Quote:
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Nikolai would be proud to know you studied it so closely
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Thanks Katya, lol Really all I did was identify the steps for Mary... But, a genious' work is worth being studied!

~

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