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Love2Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 6:11

LOL Rach, that was great to read! I love the pictures, especially the matrix one, by the way! brianmatrix Very Happy

Sheena, I also have noticed that some students of mine can't even seem to stroke with me talking to them at the same time- which is totally understandable, and I just have to remember to keep my mouth shut until they are standing still, or they'll suddenly stop mid spin or mid footwork or whatever and I'll have to say, "um, okay, continue- I'll tell you after you're finished with that..." Wink But others are okay with it if I say short key words as they set up for something.
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Ekaterina
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 7:07

Rach wrote:
Also, various injuries ranging from foot fatigue fractures 3 months before the Olympics in Torino to ripping apart multiple muscles in my hip thanks to my clumsiness have contributed there.

But I am working on it! lol! My coach says that I am

Quote :
« Au bout de la réalisation de mes plus grands rêves. »

I really hope that these 'plus grand rêves' very soon will come true cheers Ladies' skating never attracted me, and when I read about your triples and quads I felt as if all these years the ISU have been dusting my eyes lol! Because you can't see anything like that at competition. Well, probably this season Mao Asada and Yu-Na-Kim, but as for the rest... even Elene Gedevanishvili doesn't inspire me Rolling Eyes

And now just a quick question:

I've seen a 1,5 axel performed on the ground. So my question is, what types of jumps can be performed on the ground and does it really help? Is it possible to perform a jump with more that 1,5 revolutions on the ground?
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Sheena
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 14:35

I have watched Alexei Yagudin "warm-up" by doing what looked like triple axels on the ground!?!........

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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 14:51

Ekaterina wrote:
lol! Because you can't see anything like that at competition. Well, probably this season Mao Asada and Yu-Na-Kim, but as for the rest... even Elene Gedevanishvili doesn't inspire me Rolling Eyes

Well, with a little luck (as I am totally at the mercy of the FFSG Drapeau) and more than a little hard work, you will see something "like that" soon...

Not many girls do that because... well... If you could see my knees, they are purple and swollen to the point where one cannot feel the bone. This is not an exaggeration. My hip as well is very bruised, I just got over a broken wrist from a bad triple axel...
My point being that girls, in general, are physically more fragile and few are willing put themselves through what is necessary to get these jumps. Today though I think that is changing! Also I personally am very strong for someone who mesures only 1m52. That is just good genetics but it helps me get the power,height, and rotation When I am not having a "connerie" day, that is when I don't mess up evereything!

Quote :

And now just a quick question:

I've seen a 1,5 axel performed on the ground. So my question is, what types of jumps can be performed on the ground and does it really help? Is it possible to perform a jump with more that 1,5 revolutions on the ground?

OK, personally I can perform up to 3,0 jumps from a standstill. 2,5 axels are very easy. My coach tells me that the fact that I can do these is actually pretty rare, she's had far more students who have beautiful triple axels on the ice who cannot get to 2,5 axel off...
When we (or, rather, I) jump on the ground, the technique is different in that the legs do not cross, and the landing is two-footed. (There is too much friction for a one-footed landing; it could twist an ankle.)
I have never seen anything more than 3 turns in the air, nor am I capable of that (since, really, a triple axel actually turns the first half on the ground which is impossible off the ice), but I don't deny that it is *possible*
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Rach
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 14:54

Love2Smile wrote:


Sheena, I also have noticed that some students of mine can't even seem to stroke with me talking to them at the same time- .

Oh, wow, that's even "worse" than me! :lol:

Although honestly, if my coach shouts something when I am simply skating, I don't understand her at all 90 % of the time.
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Ekaterina
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 15:13

Rach, thanks for explanation. It's really interesting, because I've always thought (up to the present moment) that jumps are not only about power, but rather about speed the process of gliding gives you (I'm not sure if I made it clear in English. I have a clear image in my mind though).


Last edited by on 10.12.06 17:44; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 15:32

Ekaterina wrote:
Rach, thanks for explanation. It's really interesting, because I've always though (up to the present moment) that jumps are not only about power, but rather about speed the process of gliding gives you (I'm not sure if I made it clear in English. I have a clear image in my mind though).

I understand. Wink The benefit of going in with speed is that your jumps will cover horizontal distance in the air, which helps to conserve momentum for the landing. It is necessary for combinations.

But, no, one can go very slowly into jumps and still do them.
It's no fun though. Razz
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Titanilla
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 16:07

In Budapest i saw Plushenko warming up off ice and he did three rotations in the air!
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 16:09

Titanilla wrote:
In Budapest i saw Plushenko warming up off ice and he did three rotations in the air!

Was this before or after he was "too busy" ? lol!

Or was that all in Torino? Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 16:14

Rach wrote:
Titanilla wrote:
In Budapest i saw Plushenko warming up off ice and he did three rotations in the air!

Was this before or after he was "too busy" ? lol!

Or was that all in Torino? Embarassed

before being too busy, lol!

When he was too busy, btw, you remember well, it was in Budapest, he was doing nothing just standing next to the rink waiting for his famous manager Ari Zakarian. Obviously, he was too busy. :lach:
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 17:00

YES!! I tell that story to everyone because it is so funny! That and the infamous non-handshake! (which I have mercilessly parodied in my comic strip, in which Plushy wears a tee shirt that says "I [heart] handshakes"
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Titanilla
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 17:14

I think i should make a T-shirt which says: " I coeurgif Rach's comic strips"!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 18:21

Titanilla wrote:
I think i should make a T-shirt which says: " I coeurgif Rach's comic strips"!!!

lol! hugs

That is nice of you... and someday I will post them online! I need to, because only those of us who follow figure skating in all of its minute detail will understand the humour.
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 18:30

Rach wrote:
and someday I will post them online!

I cant wait that moment.
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   10.12.06 22:51

Rach---Thank you, thank you!!! The explanation of the mechanisms for stopping rotation are superb! Actually they're more than I could have hoped for, LOL. I'm sure that when I've reread them a few times, I'll have other related questions.

Count me as another one who would like to see your comic strips! clap

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   11.12.06 12:12

AH, I am happy that you could understand them! It was quite difficult to explain but if the final result is more than gibberish, I am pleased!
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   12.12.06 0:08

Rach your descriptions of the jumps are just amazing!
I wish I expirienced even double jump in my life...
but maybe with a lot of practices (LOL just kidding!)

I've just learn how to skate backward and do two foot spins Razz
You know I'm a very beginner lol!
But you know I attend skating classes only once a week...
And just for pleasure Wink

Anyway when you were describing how to stop the rotation
the only thing that came to my mind was what Yagudin said:

The double axel is my least favourite jump. It sounds funny,
but when I'm in the air, I have no idea when to stop rotating!

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   12.12.06 12:55

Merci pour ton compliment et

Eli wrote:


The double axel is my least favourite jump. It sounds funny,
but when I'm in the air, I have no idea when to stop rotating!

lol!

OH MY. o_O affraid

You see, I had thought that you had quoted something I wrote. Because that is EXACTLY how I feel about that jump. If I didn't write it, I surely, surely think it! Double axel, not quite a triple, more than a double. Can't pull in too tight, can't just "float"... arghIt's terrible. AND it is required in the short programme. A true injustice. Suspect Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   15.12.06 23:47

another question Smile sometimes when a skater does the jump he/she is veeery close to the band. is't it scary, how do you do that? I'm always so afraid that he/she would be tooo close and hit the band with his/her leg.

and, I suppose it's been disscussed many times Wink, but it's sht what bothers me Smile: the easiest jump is toe loop, than salchow, flip, and than?? loop? lutz? axel is the most difficult, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   16.12.06 13:00

humming bird wrote:
another question Smile sometimes when a skater does the jump he/she is veeery close to the band. is't it scary, how do you do that? I'm always so afraid that he/she would be tooo close and hit the band with his/her leg.

and, I suppose it's been disscussed many times Wink, but it's sht what bothers me Smile: the easiest jump is toe loop, than salchow, flip, and than?? loop? lutz? axel is the most difficult, isn't it?

First of all, jumping close to walls is a security thing for most skaters. The wall, which is quite irrevocably THERE, forces a timing on a jump. If a skater learns a jump with this "ah ah don't want to splat on the barrier" timing, then it is very hard to correct later on. It's a bad habit as jumps cannot be as large when the take off is 1,5m from the wall. In addition, certain mistakes will result in that much-feared wall-crash. Combinations are not so easy...

Now, as for " what jump is the hardest? " there are several ways to answer that...

Acoording to the ISU

Toe loop/valley
Salchow
Loop
Flip
Lutz
Axel

That is, in ascending order, the number of points that the jumps give you. However, as for what is REALLY easier, that depends on the skater. Different skaters find different things difficult, perhaps because of their coaches, their own habits, and their preferences. For example, for me, I'd have to say my personal order is something like :

3 loop
3 salchow
3 toe
3 lutz
4 salchow
3 flip
3 axel/4 toe <---about the same, depends on what kind of day I have.

...even if I *enjoy* toe the most.
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   17.12.06 3:51

3 axel/4toe Shocked Shocked Shocked ?!?!?! You simply must be super-woman!!
Oh wait... HAha, it just registered in my slow-moving brain that you aren't talking about a 3axel/4toe combo, but of the two in terms of difficulty being equal... lol! Yeah, my eyes were bugging out of my head when I was thinking you meant combo..... affraid mdr (but, it seems you're on the right track to reach such heights, anyway! Drapeau )

I agree with Rach on the issues of jumping close to the boards and difficulty of jumps depending on the skater...
For me, toe loops were the hardest! Rolling Eyes Ofcourse, I started out doing them with very poor technique when I was younger, so that has alot to do with it. Now I feel I have a much better technique, but don't do them so much anymore because I don't compete and therefore don't really need them at present...
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   17.12.06 16:34

3 axel 4 toe combinaison : affraid affraid affraid :incass: :incass: :incass:

But hélas no, somehow I think that if I tried that, I'd corkscrew myself into the ice after 3+ turns...


I have to admit something very embarrassing :

I used to hate toe as well. Embarassed Embarassed
When I was younger, I wanted to ban the jump from competition. I had poor technique, just like you, but most probably much worse.
Then, I discovered the perfection of form that is the jumping of Brian, and I committed myself to copy that technique. Now the toe is one of my favourite jumps (and therefore one of my favourite elements in figure skating).
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   17.12.06 18:55

Quote :
I think if I tried that, I'd corkscrew myself into the ice after 3+ turns
mdr ...still laughing out loud about this...

Oh I don't know, it'd be really hard to find a technique that would have been worse than mine was on the toe loop!! Rolling Eyes Razz My old coach taught truly awful technique... For many years I wondered what was wrong with me, that I couldn't jump like normal skaters. But, she was the highest level coach in the area at the time, so I had no choice. Then when I started to work with my new coach and to "see the light", it really dawned on me- "no wonder I never felt comfortable with those crazy jumps before now!!" I had to re-learn everything, and now I'm just so thankful that I have a better technique to pass down to my students!!
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   17.12.06 19:04

Love2Smile wrote:
3 axel/4toe Shocked Shocked Shocked

God!I thought i was going to faint when I read this! lol! My first thought was also a combo Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Jumps   17.12.06 19:15

It's really great to know more about technique, etc.

Rach, you said you decided to pick up Brian's technique which is great. But many people *not me though* consider the technique of Japanese skaters even better. It would be great to listen to your opinion on the subject.
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