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Gislaine
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PostSubject: New judging system...   13.06.06 19:36

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Love2Smile
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(11/24/05 4:25 pm)
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I was just wondering...

What does everyone think of how the new judging system is affecting the skaters' spins?

I am personally really bothered by how the skaters pretty much HAVE to include the change of edge variation in almost every spin they do (besides a layback, thank goodness) in order to acquire the most points... IMO, the change of edge feature does not in any way enhance a spin and it makes it not even look like a "real" spin, because it slows down so much and goes around in circles- isn't it the purpose of a spin to actually "SPIN"?? Yes, changing the edge is very difficult and requires alot of skill and control, but does it really enhance our sport??

Also, the sheer number of variations required to accumulate the most points for a single spin position is getting crazy, IMO... Changing the edge, changing the positions (even when it's considered just variations of the same position), etc. I don't like the trends it's creating, because it seems like there has to be so many variations stuffed into one spin, as opposed to having just one or two well executed or simple positions once in a while... Will we ever see just lovely, "old-fashioned," simple camel, sit, or layback positions held for longer than two rotations anymore? I'm all for creativity, and new spin positions are great, but I personally just think it should be toned down a bit or we'll lose the beauty of the spins....

~Love2Smile!

Blue Bead
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(11/24/05 9:48 pm)
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Oh, what a loaded topic! LOL I'm really unhappy with CoP on so many different levels and I won't try to hide that fact.

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I don't like the trends it's creating, because it seems like there has to be so many variations stuffed into one spin, as opposed to having just one or two well executed or simple positions once in a while... Will we ever see just lovely, "old-fashioned," simple camel, sit, or layback positions held for longer than two rotations anymore?
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Loves2...I couldn't agree with you more. Spins, especially, have taken on the aspects of an endurance contest---let's see how many variations we can cram into the space of this one spin---3,4,5, more? And all this is being encouraged because in order for the skaters to have a chance at the podium, they need to rack up as many points as possible in the space of time which is alloted to the SP or FP. IMHO, cramming all these variations into one period of spin at a particular point in the skater's program is ridiculous. Skating is no longer an artistic, pretty-to-watch sport. CoP has radically changed what figure skating always has been, and I don't like that.

Cramming variations into one spin spot in a program isn't my defintion of creativity either. All these variations are slowing down the speed over the entire length of time the spin takes place, and on top of that the skaters must be sure each variation lasts for the minimum required revolutions. The combination of counting revs and all the variations is enough to make any skater's head spin without physically spinning at all.

If I see another Bielman I'm going to be in this mood:

Mary C.

Katya0812
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(11/25/05 12:29 pm)
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I don't know ... except for the anonymous judges, I like CoP. This has become more and more obvious to me lately since I have had the opportunity to watch some old competitons. Really good skaters who had really great skates were given 4.9's and 5.1's, while the top skaters who had falls and popped jumps were given 5.6's and 5.7's ... all because you had to BE the right skater to be in the top 5 ... all because the placements were mostly decided on before a skater even put blade to ice. I also like the fact that even if you have a problem in the short ... you can make it up and win with an awesome free.
About the spins ... last year I liked spins SO much more. I enjoyed seeing some of the skaters do the change of edge, the ones who could really control it, but this year it seems that everyone is doing it .. whether they can do it succesfully or not. I would much prefer to see one or two changes of position held longer, than 6 or 7 each done for one rotation.
~Katya

Edited by: Katya0812 at: 11/25/05 12:30 pm

Love2Smile
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(11/26/05 1:07 am)
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I completely agree about the judging comparisons, Katya. I do agree that there are alot of positive things about the new system, but I also think there should be alot of re-evaluations in some areas of the scoring, IMO, because of what we see developing...

It's so ironic... At first, I absolutely loved the idea of the new judging system because it rewards the skating, artistry, and creative moves. But now I'm not so sure... It actually seems to be thwarting creativity in some respects, because you simply must think of the program always with "What would get the most points?" in the back of your mind...

What if the music requires a soft, simple move that is not very difficult to perform but beautiful with the music? In a scenario in which both skaters are otherwise technically equal, would a skater who chooses to do a difficult move that has nothing to do with relation to the music fare better than the skater who chooses a simpler move that is more effective and done beautifully, with heart? In the new system, the skater with the more difficult move would get more points, it appears... I guess I'm just worried about the fate of simple beauty in figure skating...

Just my opinions....

~Love2Smile!

Katya0812
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A lot of people share your opinion ... I do hope that they revise the system and continue to improve on it. I would love to see 100% fair and honest judging one day .. yeah I know, but I can dream can't I?
~Katya

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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   13.06.06 19:37

Re: New judging system...
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Loves2's concerns are certainly part of my concerns too, and the currents skater I see most affected by elements/movements appropriate to the music versus elements/movements to gain the most points is Johnny Weir. He's had to reconfigure the programs designed for him by Tarasova into something I don't think he feel entirely comfortable performing, but if he really wants to win medals he has no other choice.

I see problems along the same line with Brian's programs. He, too, has had to do some revamping to gain maximum points. All of the programs I've seen so far which have been broadcast, have skaters doing programs jamb packed with element after element to the degree that there's nothing of real beauty left in the programs. Cinquanta wanted a sport-like event for figure skating, and now he's got one because what the skaters are doing out there is nothing more than a rigorous athletic event on the ice; there's little to no beauty in it!

Yes, I'll agree there are some benefits to CoP but darn few! A little tweaking of the this judging system isn't the answer. There are just too many areas that need more than tweaking, LOL.

Another part of CoP that makes me suspicious is the GOE (grade of excellence, from 0 up to +3 points or from 0 down to -3 points). My suspicions center around abuse and misuse as it's the perfect set up to allow any judge to add more points for the skater he wants to win and detract points from the skaters he doesn't want to win. If several jugdes get together clandestinely before the competition, they can pre-agree to boost this skater or bump down that one with the GOE alone and influence the judging outcome. If only 2 or 3 judges boost up or bump down using GOE points it's improbable that they could affect the points outcome.

What makes it all suspicious of all this, is they don't have to give any particular reason as to why they chose to add points or subtract them at the time of the competition or immediately after, since there's no such thing as judges getting together immediately after the sections of competition to evaluate and discuss skaters' marks like the post-judging procedure in the 6.0 system. As I understand it now what post-judging assessment there is takes place after the season is over. Oh, yeah! a lot of good that does 8 to 9 months after it's too late to do anything about it to really benefit the skaters affected by the results.

One thing which I haven't seen discussed yet anywhere, is if a skater invents a really creative new move how does he/she get it rated and pointed so it can be counted toward competition points? This also speaks to the problem of how CoP quashes creativity. As I understand it no elements, or variation of it, gains points unless it's been seen previously by whatever judges or techincal panel assigns points and decides on levels. So does this mean that if a skater invents a really cool new variation of an element that he sends a video tape of it to some panel which then assigns it a level and points or rejects it? LOL It certainly wouldn't make sense for a skater to put a new element variation into valuable program space unless it will gain him points. But if he wanted to, how is it done?

The only benefit I can see to CoP's radical re-working of the judging of figure skating is an upsurge of interest in professional skating which still has skaters performing beautiful programs, and maybe fans will turn to pro skating competitions in droves to satisfy their cravings for creative skating and return the pro world to popularity once more.

Mary C.

Love2Smile
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(11/26/05 8:22 pm)
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Yeah, we can all dream I guess, Katya.... Figure skating judging has always been such a crazy issue...


Quote:
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if a skater invents a really creative new move how does he/she get it rated and pointed so it can be counted toward competition points?
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That's another question that I had also, Mary!! I forgot to mention that one.
I think I'm going to try and get in contact with a coach I know who works as a technical specialist and ask him that question!

I have one more, too....
Do all these points really add up to reward the best OVERALL skater??

~Love2Smile!

Katya0812
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(11/27/05 12:12 am)
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That might be a good question to ask on the ISU forum ... I would be interested in knowing the answer.
~Katya

SheenaVivien
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(11/27/05 10:41 am)
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I suppose that they SHOULD add up to the best overall skater, as all the different skills are getting marked. Think of a short programme competition, where maybe the top 6 or so skaters are very close in marks: in the old days only the top 3 could win outright in the free - now it is still all to skate for (ask Emanuel!!)....

Sheena

Oana24
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(11/27/05 10:00 am)
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I agree with what you're all saying, but i still think the old judging system needed to be changed. It was too subjective in my opinion, one didn't know what the marks were given for...The new system at least tries to justify the deductios and the bonus points given to skaters. But it's not less true that the judges are still the ones in total control of the marks.

There's a lot of confusion surrounding the new judging system, i guess. For example, the system should encourage the skaters to pay more attention to the artistic part of the program as long as taking risks isn't rewarded anymore, but all those stereotypes skaters include in their programs in order to gain more points have nothing to do with artistry...

Anyway, i'm quite optimistic about all this. Every new start is a challenge, and maybe in time this new judging system will be improved. And i also think that at the Olympics, the one who's really the best will win! Let's all hope it will be Brian!

Oana

Edited by: Oana24 at: 11/27/05 3:16 pm

Katya0812
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I am really curious about something ... I hope one of our skaters can help.
I was always under the impression that it is more difficult to do circular and serpantine footwork than straight line, am I wrong?? I ask because they all get the same point values.
~Katya

SheenaVivien
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I thought that one of them (can't remember which!) got more points as it was harder - but I could be wrong......

Sheena

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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   13.06.06 19:38

Re: New judging system...
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Mary asked about this ... here are the point values for each of the elements:

Singles
Element Abbreviation Base Value
Single Toeloop 1T 0,4
Single Salchow 1S 0,4
Single Loop 1Lo 0,5
Single Flip 1F 0,5
Single Lutz 1Lz 0,6
Single Axel 1A 0,8
Double Toeloop 2T 1,3
Double Salchow 2S 1,3
Double Loop 2Lo 1,5
Double Flip 2F 1,7
Double Lutz 2Lz 1,9
Double Axel 2A 3,3
Triple Toeloop 3T 4,0
Triple Salchow 3S 4,5
Triple Loop 3Lo 5,0
Triple Flip 3F 5,5
Triple Lutz 3Lz 6,0
Triple Axel 3A 7,5
Quad. Toeloop 4T 9,0
Quad. Salchow 4S 9,5
Quad. Loop 4Lo 10,0
Quad. Flip 4F 10,5
Quad. Lutz 4Lz 11,0
Quad. Axel 4A 13,0

Upright Spin 1 USp1 1,2
Upright Spin 2 USp2 1,5
Upright Spin 3 USp3 1,8
Upright Spin 4 USp4 2,4
Layback Spin 1 LSp1 1,2
Layback Spin 2 LSp2 1,5
Layback Spin 3 LSp3 1,8
Layback Spin 4 LSp4 2,4
Camel Spin 1 CSp1 1,2
Camel Spin 2 CSp2 1,5
Camel Spin 3 CSp3 1,8
Camel Spin 4 CSp4 2,4
Sit Spin 1 SSp1 1,2
Sit Spin 2 SSp2 1,5
Sit Spin 3 SSp3 1,8 0
Sit Spin 4 SSp4 2,4
Flying Upright Spin 1 FUSp1 1,7
Flying Upright Spin 2 FUSp2 2,0
Flying Upright Spin 3 FUSp3 2,3
Flying Upright Spin 4 FUSp4 3,0
Flying Layback Spin 1 FLSp1 1,7
Flying Layback Spin 2 FLSp2 2,0
Flying Layback Spin 3 FLSp3 2,3
Flying Layback Spin 4 FLSp4 3,0
Flying Camel Spin 1 FCSp1 1,7
Flying Camel Spin 2 FCSp2 2,0
Flying Camel Spin 3 FCSp3 2,3
Flying Camel Spin 4 FCSp4 3,0
Flying Sit Spin 1 FSSp1 1,7
Flying Sit Spin 2 FSSp2 2,0
Flying Sit Spin 3 FSSp3 2,3
Flying Sit Spin 4 FSSp4 3,0
Change Foot Upright Spin 1 CUSp1 1,3
Change Foot Upright Spin 2 CUSp2 1,7
Change Foot Upright Spin 3 CUSp3 2,1
Change Foot Upright Spin 4 CUSp4 3,0
Change Foot Layback Spin 1 CLSp1 1,3
Change Foot Layback Spin 2 CLSp2 1,7
Change Foot Layback Spin 3 CLSp3 2,1
Change Foot Layback Spin 4 CLSp4 3,0
Change Foot Camel Spin 1 CCSp1 1,3
Change Foot Camel Spin 2 CCSp2 1,7
Change Foot Camel Spin 3 CCSp3 2,1
Change Foot Camel Spin 4 CCSp4 3,0
Change Foot Sit Spin 1 CSSp1 1,3
Change Foot Sit Spin 2 CSSp2 1,7
Change Foot Sit Spin 3 CSSp3 2,1
Change Foot Sit Spin 4 CSSp4 3,0
Fly. Change Foot Upright Spin 1 FCUSp1 1,3
Fly. Change Foot Upright Spin 2 FCUSp2 1,7
Fly. Change Foot Upright Spin 3 FCUSp3 2,1
Fly. Change Foot Upright Spin 4 FCUSp4 3,0
Fly. Change Foot Layback Spin 1 FCLSp1 1,3
Fly. Change Foot Layback Spin 2 FCLSp2 1,7
Fly. Change Foot Layback Spin 3 FCLSp3 2,1
Fly. Change Foot Layback Spin 4 FCLSP4 3,0
Fly. Change Foot Camel Spin 1 FCCSp1 1,3
Fly. Change Foot Camel Spin 2 FCCSp2 1,7
Fly. Change Foot Camel Spin 3 FCCSp3 2,1
Fly. Change Foot Camel Spin 4 FCCSp4 3,0
Fly. Change Foot Sit Spin 1 FCSSp1 1,3
Fly. Change Foot Sit Spin 2 FCSSp2 1,7
Fly. Change Foot Sit Spin 3 FCSSp3 2,1
Fly. Change Foot Sit Spin 4 FCSSp4 3,0
Combination Spin 1 CoSp1 1,7
Combination Spin 2 CoSp2 2,1
Combination Spin 3 CoSp3 2,5
Combination Spin 4 CoSp4 3,0
Fly. Combination Spin 1 FCoSp1 1,7
Fly. Combination Spin 2 FCoSp2 2,1
Fly. Combination Spin 3 FCoSp3 2,5
Fly. Combination Spin 4 FCoSp4 3,0
Change Foot Combination Spin 1 CCoSp1 2,0
Change Foot Combination Spin 2 CCoSp2 2,5
Change Foot Combination Spin 3 CCoSp3 3,0
Change Foot Combination Spin 4 CCoSp4 3,5
Fly. Change Foot Comb. Spin 1 FCCoSp1 2,0
Fly. Change Foot Comb. Spin 2 FCCoSp2 2,5
Fly. Change Foot Comb. Spin 3 FCCoSp3 3,0
Fly. Change Foot Comb. Spin 4 FCCoSp4 3,5

Straight Line Step Sequence 1 SlSt1 1,8
Straight Line Step Sequence 2 SlSt2 2,3
Straight Line Step Sequence 3 SlSt3 3,1
Straight Line Step Sequence 4 SlSt4 3,4
Circular Step Sequence 1 CiSt1 1,8
Circular Step Sequence 2 CiSt2 2,3
Circular Step Sequence 3 CiSt3 3,1
Circular Step Sequence 4 CiSt4 3,4
Serpentine Step Sequence 1 SeSt1 1,8
Serpentine Step Sequence 2 SeSt2 2,3
Serpentine Step Sequence 3 SeSt3 3,1
Serpentine Step Sequence 4 SeSt4 3,4
Spiral Step Sequence 1 SpSt1 1,8
Spiral Step Sequence 2 SpSt2 2,3
Spiral Step Sequence 3 SpSt3 3,1
Spiral Step Sequence 4 SpSt4 3,4

If there is interest, I also have the element values for Pairs and Dance stored, and can post them.
~Katya

Love2Smile
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About your step sequence question, Katya... Doing the difficult steps in a serpentine is a little more difficult than the straight line, IMO.

~Love2Smile! Love2Skate!

Blue Bead
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Thanks, Katya, the elements and base values are just what I was looking for!

Mary C.

Katya0812
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I thought so too Heidi, but they are scored the same.

You are very welcome Mary
~Katya

Sunshine249
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Thank you for posting the point values, Katya! It's very interesting!

Maike

nona
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Katya. I was just looking through some old posts and this is really intristing. Thank you!


There are a lot of elements to judge. I really did not know that it would be this much.

manon


Edited by: nona at: 6/2/06 7:43 am

SheenaVivien
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The judges have much more to do than just sit there looking pretty (or otherwise!).....

Sheena

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Sheena!

I've seen judges that scowl really something awful... I guess that maybe means that they just had a really bad day...

But I've also seen judges that were smiling and cheerful. It's so pleasant to see a judge with a cheerful expression when he or she is judging.

~Love2Smile!

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A cheerful & pleasant judge would certainly be less intimidating if one was taking a test....

Sheena

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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   13.06.06 19:39

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yeah

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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   23.03.09 10:40

a new article about it, it sums up my basic opinion on it, advantages and disadvantages

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-elliott22-2009mar22,1,6677708.column?page=1
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   25.03.09 18:35

I am really saddened by the changes to the judging system, through which they have succeeded to discourage even more the taking of risks, if that was possible. The penalties for falling are now so severe that it is more judicious to execute a passable triple than a quad, if you've the slightest worry about falling on the latter. Anyone who has skated or known skaters could report that it takes far more skill and training to complete a quad -- even if you happen to fall on the attempt -- than a triple. I find this quite depressing and fear that it was done to put a definitive end to the technical progression of the sport, due to the often bad media attention we receive for beating up our bodies to the point where we require major surgeries at young ages due to lost cartelige and other stresses (for example I was losing all of the cartilage in my ankle at 18 years). For my part I believe that we take the risks for love of the sport; the idea of jumping up and doing four turns is veerily the thing that attracts us and pushes us to improve. We are aware of the consequences and consent to sign away our health for a chance at the glory and contentment of accomplishment. It saddens me that the ISU's new system artificially discourages us to attain our potential through both severe penalties to anything short of perfection and workarounds through which technically inferior skaters can still claim victory. Sad

Just my little rant.
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   05.04.10 14:58

Maybe a stupid question what does GOE stand for and basically, what is it?
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   05.04.10 15:15

GOE stands for Grade of Execution. In essence, it is an additional mark as to how well or poorly a skater performs any element of his/her program, from spins to jumps and everything inbetween. Judges have the option of awarding these extra points in the amounts of 0, +1, +2, +3, or -1,-2,-3.

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   08.04.10 15:23

Ah, I did kind of know that...I just didn't know that's what it meant! One mystery solved! Thanx Mary C.!
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   08.04.10 18:42

One thing that I found was weird about GOE, if someone managed to finish their jump, why give negatives? If it was done really poorly, then give a 0-0.5, or a low mark, but having negatives just makes it very discouraging to try the more challenging things. Or do they not give negatives unless the skater falls?
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   14.04.10 15:38

Quote :
One thing that I found was weird about GOE, if someone managed to finish their jump, why give negatives? If it was done really poorly, then give a 0-0.5, or a low mark, but having negatives just makes it very discouraging to try the more challenging things. Or do they not give negatives unless the skater falls?
Minus-GOEs are given for a variety of reasons, including times when the jump is completed; a negative GOE does not necessarily mean the skater has fallen, although the larger the negative the more likely the additional mark is given for some sort of fall, either actual contact with the ice or a hand down. Negative GOEs are given for wrong edges entering certain jumps, like the lutz. The same is true of lack of flow out of jumps. If a judge really wants to get picky, lol, he/she can award negative GOEs for the skater's off-alined axis in the air. Theoretically, anything which isn't textbook perfect is subject to a negative GOE. Supposedly, the idea behind GOEs was to show the skater where his/her technique still needs improvement rather than become a discouragement for the skater to try challenging elements. Unfortunately, what was "supposed" to happen sometime isn't and the judges use GOE much in the same way that they did the concept of ordinals in the old 6.0 system--as a way of pushing a federations favorite skaters into medal position.

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   14.04.10 22:01

Thank you very much for the explanation, Mary.
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   22.04.10 20:18

I'm sure we've all wondered at one time of another what kinds of things the judges consider when awarding GOE points. Here's the definitive answer (or as "definitive" as the ISU ever gets, LOL):
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=981

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   23.04.10 17:54

Thanks Mary, thats a useful link (now saved in my computer)!

I knew that height & length (distance) were on the same bullet point, personally I think that, as they are different qualities in a jump, they should be seperate & that someone who gets both together deserves two bullet points for what is a very special jump.

I'm rather intrigued by the "varied position in the air" one, what on earth can they mean?

I'm pleased to see "superior extension on landing" mentioned, therefore good run out = a bullet point!

Finally I'm also happy to see points 3 & 4 in the step sequences section - it is good to know that actually interpreting the music counts, as it should!!

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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   23.04.10 19:54

Quote :
I'm rather intrigued by the "varied position in the air" one, what on earth can they mean?
Hence my comment, "or as definitive as the ISU ever gets." Obviously that's built in wiggle room for whatever reason, lol, but serioulsy--I'd like to know exactly what that means, too. Do they mean something like a "tano" variation or something akin to that? Maybe a delayed rotation? There's not a lot of variations out there of which I'm aware. Maybe they're leaving room for some skater to invent a new one, LOL.

Mary C.
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Sheena
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   24.04.10 12:27

You could well be correct Mary - I had forgotten about the 'tano arm postion; delayed rotation is also mentioned by name.

As far I know, the ideal air postion in a jump is totally straight, with the feet tight together & crossed over. Anything else (crooked body etc) is not helpful to the jump (one is more likely to fall as a result) & therefore should be in the negative rather than the positive GOE list - maybe they want to encourage wrapped jumps??? lol!

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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   24.04.10 15:50

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maybe they want to encourage wrapped jumps???
God forbid! Rolling Eyes LOL

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   24.04.10 18:52

What's a wrapped jump? Question
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   24.04.10 20:31

A wrapped jump has the skater's legs crossed at the knee with the crossing leg held parallel to the ice rather than crossed as tightly as possible, low down on the leg, next to the other foot. For a photographic example, scroll down to "leg wrap" and take a look at the picture example on the right; it's a fuzzy pic but you get a clear idea of what it is.
http://tinyurl.com/3ah9vtt
Actually, any time the crossing leg isn't held tightly against the landing leg, it's a technical deduction.

BTW, that's a really good site for figure skating definitions.

Mary C.
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   25.04.10 14:37

And if you want to see a wrapped jump in motion just watch any program of Yukari Nakano on YouTube Wink she always jumps this way
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   13.09.10 9:09

On ISU site I read what is obligatory for men this season.

2010-2011
Men

a) Double or triple Axel Paulsen;
b) One double or triple Loop jump immediately preceded by connecting steps and/or by other comparable Free Skating movements;
c) One jump combination consisting of a double and a triple jump or two triple jumps;
d) Flying camel spin;
e) Sit spin with only one change of foot;
f) Spin combination with all the three basic positions (sit, camel, upright or any variation thereof) and with only one change of foot;
g) Two different step sequences of a different nature (straight line, circular or serpentine).

And I'm wondering why they don't write anything about quads. Question I hope men could do it on SP Smile last year they didin't write about quads too, but they (men) did it, am I right? Very Happy

Thx to you LONNIE Smile I repaired my mistake - so...
below are basic rules for Men JUNIOR
a) Double or triple Axel Paulsen;
b) One triple or one quadruple jump immediately preceded by connecting steps and/or other comparable Free Skating movements;
c) One jump combination consisting of a double jump and a triple jump or two triple jumps or a quadruple jump and a double jump or a triple jump;
d) Flying spin;
e) Camel spin or sit spin with only one change of foot;
f) Spin combination with all the three basic positions (sit, camel, upright or any variation thereof) and with only one change of foot;
g) Two step sequences of a different nature (straight line, circular or serpentine).


Last edited by mba83 on 17.09.10 12:29; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I repaired and add rules for junior)
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   13.09.10 17:25

well, mba83, i think they wanted to clear what skaters should do at least Very Happy thats why they dont talk about quads.. they just cant say "oh, dont do the most difficult element (jump)".. that would be quite ridiculous.. looking forward to new season, some skaters decided to include quads to their programmes - Michal Brezina, Patrick Chan...
anyway, thanks for posting the rules Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   13.09.10 20:47

mba83, where did you find those rules? The first set, which specifically mentions a loop jump, seems to be the requirement for junior skaters, whose SP has more specific elements and less freedom of choice than that of seniors, whereas the second set, which is more general, seems like the senior requirement.

However, I am baffled by the mention of two step sequences - didn't the ISU just drop the second step sequence from the SP, to be replaced by more TRANSITIONS?


Lonnie, still dripping from an extremely hot summer, can't wait for the season to begin
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   14.09.10 6:22

Thank you missviolet for explain, I was wondering it is obligatory to do max triple. Ufff glad that quads are possible too.
More I find it:
a quadruple jump cannot be included again as a solo jump

Thank you lonnie too, I read it on ISU rules and it looks like the senior must do loop
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-191593-208816-140518-0-file,00.pdf

Page no 85-89.

There is specifications for ladies JUNIOR too: take look Smile

2010/2011
a) Double Axel Paulsen;
b) One double or triple Loop jump immediately preceded by connecting steps and/or by other comparable Free Skating movements;
c) One jump combination consisting of two double jumps or one double and one triple jump or two triple jumps;
d) Flying camel spin;
e) Layback or sideways leaning spin;
f) Spin combination with all the three basic positions (sit, camel, upright or any variation thereof) and with only one change of foot;
g) Spiral sequence;
h) Step sequence (straight line, circular or serpentine).


And Pair JUNIOR

2010-2011

a) Any Lasso-lift take-off (Group Five)
b) One twist lift (double or triple)
c) One throw jump (double or triple)
d) One solo jump (double or triple)
e) Solo spin combination with only one change of foot and at least one change of position
f) Pair spin combination with only one change of foot and at least one change of position
g) Death spiral backward inside
h) Spiral sequence


Last edited by mba83 on 17.09.10 12:30; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I repaired and add rules for junior - thx for lonnie's expalin :))
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PostSubject: Re: New judging system...   14.09.10 7:21

mba83 wrote:
Thank you missviolet for explain, I was wondering it is obligatory to do max triple. Ufff glad that quads are possible too.
More I find it:
a quadruple jump cannot be included again as a solo jump

Thank you lonnie too, I read it on ISU rules and it looks like the senior must do loop
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-191593-208816-140518-0-file,00.pdf

Page no 85-89.
No, that was what passed at the 2008 ISU Congress. The decisions of the 2010 Congress & the newer ISU communications negate that and lay out the requirements for skaters in 2010-11. For instance, this is what appears in communication 1619 re the SPs for men and ladies:

Short Program for Single Skating (Senior and Junior):
a) The Short Program consists of seven (7) required elements.
b) Men, Seniors and Juniors: only one step sequence (straight line, circular or serpentine) is included.
c) Ladies, Seniors and Juniors: no spiral sequence is included. Execution of Spirals will be rewarded in
“Transitions”.
d) Ladies, Senior can have either a double or a triple Axel.
e) Men, Senior: it is possible to execute two different quadruple jumps - one in combination and one as solo jump.
f) Men, Senior: the landing position of the flying spin and the position of the spin in one position must be different (e.g. FCSp and СSSp).



Last edited by Yulie on 14.09.10 7:24; edited 1 time in total
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